Re: X5M vs diesel discussion

[Chompers]

[quote="snipez999"]
Let me know if you get more than 20 mpg, ever, as I need half an excuse to get the petrol X6m next.....


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[/quote]

Surprised you didn't get one of those when opting for the 50d  :blink:

[X5Sport]

50D is a MUCH better vehicle.  Who needs a V8... >:D

[Chompers]

[quote="X5Sport"]
50D is a MUCH better vehicle.  Who needs a V8... >:D
[/quote]

How so?  :blink:

[535dboy]

[quote="X5Sport"]
50D is a MUCH better vehicle.  Who needs a V8... >:D
[/quote]

Yeah right.

Chugging old tractor vs proper engine!

[X5Sport]

[quote="535dboy"]
Yeah right.
Chugging old tractor a proper engine!
[/quote]

Yes I should have expected that comment shouldn't I..... :nonono:

To answer Chompers though.....Diesel Technology has improved in huge leaps in the last few years and the need for larger petrol engines is really fading away.  The same in the smaller market....why else would the petrol market have dropped to well below 50% of all demand and petrol consumption have dropped 25% in a few years.  It's not just smaller engines and better economy, it's because diesel power is now a pleasure to drive.  It all happens at much lower rpm with far less fuss and rush from the powerplant.  On a normal road I very rarely go anywhere near the top end of the rev range simply because there is no need to.  As someone on here' sig says, people buy horsepower but they drive torque, and that the key bit.  What is the powerplant putting on the road.  What is sounds like is irrelevant.

I've been driving oil burners for nearly 30 years and see absolutely no reason at all to go back to petrol - and as for the soundtrack that everyone with V8's bangs on about - so what.  It's just noise.  The 'rattle' of the older 4-cyl engines is a thing of the past, and in the cabin you don't hear it anyway.  I rather like the gruff road that the twin turbo IL6 diesel makes and it's perfectly capable of seriously embarrassing some 'hot hatches' and even some V8s, and it does it all with two less cylinders and for less money.   

When I bought my E53, BMW wanted an additional £5k per cylinder for the V8, without adding any options.  No justification at all for that. >:(

Trim wise I think the fronts are both as ugly as sin with huge gaping holes, but again that's a personal preference.  The non-performance at the front kit looks much better IMHO.  I will change my tail pipes once funds become available again, as I do think the squarer pipes look better, but that's purely cosmetics and personal taste, regardless of pvr's wheelbarrow handles comments.

Just my humble opinion.....

Richard

[535dboy]

That's because you are old!

I agree diesels have come on a long way and yes there is some pleasure in wafting on torque but nothing like the same as going around the rev counter the same distance again (the lotus and RS both rev to over 8k) in a petrol car and work with the car instead of being lazy.

You don't drive a diesel for fun there are two many un necessary gear changes and you are always in the wrong gear for proper driving!

Diesel sales  increased mainly because of the company car tax system here. Petrols are catching up again and are a nicer place to be.

Your stats don't include America who still very wary of them.

There is more to go wrong with diesels, the fuel costs more as do the cars from day one (generally)

I drove the proper X6M up the Goodwood hill at the FoS and it did shift an sounded nice. The 50d is for wannabes!

[X5Sport]

[quote="535dboy"]
That's because you are old!

Your stats don't include America who still very wary of them.

There is more to go wrong with diesels, the fuel costs more as do the cars from day one (generally)
[/quote]

Well, yes.....   Wrong side of 50 but who cares........

as far as the US - this is primarily a UK site/membership so that's irrelevant, they don't give a damn about fuel consumption etc.  In some areas if it hasn't got a V8 it's probably a reject no matter what fuel it uses, and they don't get enough kudos points, and they can get decent diesels because of manufacturers costs in testing them to meet State and Federal regs which are different and vary across the country - ridiculous situation - and one a lot of US drivers are less than happy about.

as for parts/more to go wrong. Really?  No ignition system - so those parts/systems are missing.  Both still have similar fuel systems (albeit the pressures are different).  V8's still have more parts than an IL6 - like 4 camshafts instead of two and all the extra hardware/valves/gaskets, covers, timing gear systems, extra electronics (and then there's the BMW valley pan has been an issue in the past) etc.  The BMW V8 still has turbos.  Sounds like a fair number of areas to fail to me.  Looking at the US sites there are issues with V8s that we don't see on the IL6 diesel units at all.

As for the pleasures of the rev counter - that's track operations not day to day driving.

Richard

[Chompers]

Thanks for the reply Richard. I could not agree more with you when it comes to diesel performance improvement over the years. I have also been a diesel driver for many years, infact all my BMW's bar my V8 have been diesel. Yes the torque is what you want in real world driving. But one thing diesel lacks even with 2 or 3 turbos is the throttle response you get from a petrol engined performance vehicle. While my drive this morning in the 125d was very enjoyable it was also a bit frustrating, you just can't set up a diesel engine vehicle on the throttle to enter or exit bends with control. Having driven the very same roads in various Lotus and petrol BMW's + others over the years the diesels just don't have the responce.

Yet again we seem to have well and truely hijacked this thread, so sorry to the OP  :-[

[535dboy]

Then those stats are uk only and therefore those stats are driven pretty much entirely by the company car regime.

This will now start to reverse as manufactures are making much more efficient petrol engines and therefore B-I-K % drop for equivalent petrols. 116i and 118i BMWs are now selling in a much better ratio to diesel now

On diesel vs NA petrol. You have the expensive DPF that needs changing and also the turbos are well known to go bang, particularly on BMWs therefore more costs.

Rev counter thing is not just track as I and chompers have just agreed on - diesels do not work when pressing on in the corners.

[Chompers]

[quote="535dboy"]
This will now start to reverse as manufactures are making much more efficient petrol engines and therefore B-I-K % drop for equivalent petrols. 116i and 118i BMWs are now selling in a much better ratio to diesel now
[/quote]

It has already started to. You only need to look at the top selling UK cars to see this. You only have to look at the number of sub 1.0 turbo engine cars coming to the market place to see this trend will continue.

[535dboy]

[quote="Chompers"]
[quote="535dboy"]
This will now start to reverse as manufactures are making much more efficient petrol engines and therefore B-I-K % drop for equivalent petrols. 116i and 118i BMWs are now selling in a much better ratio to diesel now
[/quote]

It has already started to. You only need to look at the top selling UK cars to see this. You only have to look at the number of sub 1.0 turbo engine cars coming to the market place to see this trend will continue.
[/quote]

Yes fords Eco boost seems to be a winner if driven sensibly.

[X5Sport]

Apologies for the hijack again...........

I use the gearbox to get the engine into the correct area of the torque range and never have trouble 'pressing on' whether it's the manual E46 330CD or the X6 with it's clever rear axle.  The Mini isn't powerful enough or designed for that type of hooning about.  May be having been partly taught to drive by a Police Traffic Division makes a difference, but it shouldn't for track type work - which is different again.

I'll let the OP get his entries in and have his thread back now as I think we've done enough hijacking between us now - well I probably have.. :sorry:......it's a debate that can run and run, and rightly so.

R

[Chompers]

I think there is a lot more to be said on this subject. Could either AW8 or PVR split the Petrol v Diesel discussion to a more suitable location

Again  :sorry: to the OP. However I do look forward to your thoughts/comments on why you chose the 'M' over a twin or tripple blower diesel 

[snipez999]

Steady on with the wannabe bit. I can afford to buy pretty much anything but opted for the diesel m car as its a new venture for bmw i was happy enough with the bmw engine andI wanted diesel mpg but more oomph. 5 secs 0-60 is no slouch dear boy. Personal circumstances dictate I can forego the mpg in my next car hence the half enquiry - 20 mpg is a decent marker for a car in my book.


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[535dboy]

Thought you'd like that!

Yes it is quick but it so effortless that it did nothing for me when I took it around Brands on a corporate day.

Don't get me wrong it is nice but can't be described as an exciting driving experience.

You won't notice a massive effect on fuel bills(not that I pay them anyway) between the two anyway, I haven't, particularly when you factor the cheaper fuel. (Used v power in both). My biggest gripe is the range.