XSeries-forum

Hi all

First time on this website but it looks like the best place to come as I want to buy a second hand BMW X5 next month. Apologies for the huge email but I really do need some advice please!

1. I have a budget of approx £8k. Should I buy a 2004 model for £8k or a 2001/02 model for £5k and use the savings to pay for possible surprises? Apart from the new shape, is the 2004 more reliable than the 2001/02 or is it basically the same car?

2. I have been looking at Autotrader for the last 2 weeks and most models in my price range have done around 70k-100k miles. However I have also seen some with 60k and even a few with 50k. Should I buy one that has done at least 60k or maybe 70k on the assumption that many "big" maintenance jobs will already have been done?

3. I plan to have it converted to run on LPG around Christmas time as in January I start a new job which will see me driving 110 miles a day. I would like to get the 3L Petrol model, rather than the V8 models, to save on insurance and fuel costs. Would the 3L Petrol model convert to LPG OK?

4. I have to park on the road outside my house rather than on a drive way. For this reason I may be interested in a model where the mirrors fold back on their own. Are these mirrors on 2001 and 2004 models? If not, could I possibly buy the parts from a scrap yard and have them fitted or does it not work like that?

Thanks very much for any help you can give me!

Sally

Sally,... I would have thought that the diesel X5 would have been more up your street for the milage you do daily (only my opinion) I just bought my first X5 not long ago and I'm certainly glad I got the diesel version returning 31 mpg. Mines is the 2003 model and it has the fold-in mirrors. I got mine with 80k on the clock for £8k and is in immaculate condition.

John

Hi Sally,

Welcome.....

Folding mirrors are a 'cost option' on the E53, so you need to check the specs to make sure they were added.

The E53 underwent a facelift in late 2003 which brought a 6 speed auto (replacing the 5-sp) a power increase on the diesel from 186 to 218bhp and a few other cosmetic updates.  In my opinion you would be better going for a 'face-lifted' car.  Fuel economy wise there is very little difference between the 3.0L and 4.4 V8.  Both return low 20's so as suggested a Diesel may be a better choice.  The 3.0i needs working quite hard to make it 'go' and economy suffers.  The 4.6 and 4.8 are low 20's or worse.

There is a 'Buyers Guide' on the forum here which will answer most of your questions.

Servicing is every 18k miles or so and don't assume that any multi-owned cars have been correctly maintained.  Some have, but others may be lacking shall we say.  The larger bills can happen at any point, but by around 60k you will be early in the next cycle of maintenance.  A lot will also depend on how and where the cars have been driven.

Unless you have deep pockets, a pot available, or some other ready income a warranty is essential.  These are luxury cars and come with appropriate servicing (up to £300 routine) and repair bills (the sky is the limit!).

Items to watch are suspension bushes, auto-gearboxes (manuals are VERY rare), air suspension and electrics - all of which need a thorough check.  Any doubts, or concerns about a vehicle or seller and you should walk away.  There are plenty of good cars around.

Richard

First off the difference in MPG between the 3.0 and 4.4 is negligable so in my opinion go for the 4.4. Its a sweet engine and a sweet sound. My 2002 4.4 is LPG and I can get 300 miles from a full tank of gas (95 litre - 80% full) usually comes in around £55 to £60 depending on prices.
My other advice is to test drive any vehicle for a minimum of 20 miles. I am currently suffering from a gearbox issue which doesnt show up for at least 10 - 15 miles.

I would activly look for one that already has gas. A properly installed sytem on the X allowing for suspension pump moving and a either a BRC or Prins gas system is going to cost in the region of £2 / 2.5k. where as the premium for an already converted car is about + £1500. Dont be tempted by the £1000 "do it in a day offers" also budjet to change the battery if it hasent been changed recently. Once the LPG tank is in, its a cow of a job.

Whatever variant you choose it should run smooth as you like with no knock or clunks, main dealer history is prefered in my book. Mine had "history" from an independent but some items I know for a fact havent been touched from day of build.

my advice would be have a think what you want on the car as in the options, do you want sat nav, bluetooth etc. Once you have decided what options you want look for cars that have those options as it is not worth trying to fit these items as retro fit as it can be very costly.

Thanks for the responses. Here goes for my reply!

31mpg using diesel sounds good. I have a 2002 318 and only get 28mpg using petrol. However I still like the idea of LPG and think I will save money in the long run, especially at weekends when I take my children on long trips. Plus I want to keep the X5 for as long as possible as it ticks all the boxes.

OK I will get the 4.4 V8 (automatic is my preference) and pay the extra on the insurance

Yes I was planning to get the PRINS LPG system and had budgeted £2k. If I can find one with this system already fitted that would be fabulous.

I don't need Bluetooth but a Sat Nav system would be nice. I would also like full BMW service history and don't mind waiting until the right model turns up.

Sorry to be a pain but could someone have a stab at answering these questions:

1. I have a budget of approx £8k. Should I buy a 2004 model for £8k or a 2001/02 model for £5k and use the savings to pay for possible surprises? Apart from the new shape, is the 2004 more reliable than the 2001/02 or is it basically the same car?

2. I have been looking at Autotrader for the last 2 weeks and most models in my price range have done around 70k-100k miles. However I have also seen some with 60k and even a few with 50k. Should I buy one that has done at least 60k or maybe 70k on the assumption that many "big" maintenance jobs will already have been done?

Thanks again.

Question 1 mostly answered above.  The facelift also saw the introduction of the xDrive system replacing the earlier 4x4 system.  The running gear is updated, along with in car electronics including a DVD based map system, and newer versions of options that were available. The 4.4V8 was also improved in terms of performance with an uplift to 320bhp from 286bhp.  The 3.0i remained the same throughout its production life.  The 4.6 was replaced by the 4.8.  Reliability is the same.

I would suggest that buying a car like these for £5k may be a bag of spanners.  Remember, a gearbox failure will wipe out your safety net, or most of it.  You might be lucky.....but you might not. 

In my opinion go as new and low mileage as you can afford as there really are no hard and fast rules about servicing, or maintenance being needed or paid, or even done properly as I indicated in my first response.  Some things may have been done, and some won't, but an older higher mileage car is just as likely to need parts as a younger lower mileage car depending upon how it's been driven.  Mileage does not equal 'large jobs' done.  If you are hoping that all the bills are paid and are on the borderline of affording to run one of these, my advice is don't unless you are really sure.  Your posts are almost sending that message out, hence my comments.

There are also no guarantees on reliability either.  Buying a BMW really can mean 'Break My Wallet' for the unwary.  I'm not trying to dissuade you as these cars are good, but if you are in any way worried about the financial implication or impacts should (heaven forbid) something bad happen and you need a major fault cleared then it will cost, and those costs can hurt.....as a BMW Owner already you will know that of course.

A few folks on here have bought what on the face of it was a good car, only to be burnt soon after when faults suddenly appeared - and the less scrupulous Owners will have sold them to Dealers in the full knowledge that there were issues, and all too often there are Dealers playing the same game.

If you look at what is possibly one of the more frequent failures, the gearbox, they are just as likely to fail at 40,000 miles (as mine did) as at 60, 70, 80 or 125k miles.  It still costs around £2k to fix it, regardless of it being a 2001 5-speed or a 2006 6-speed.  All the engine variants have issues if not correctly maintained by Owners cutting corners in the current financial environment. 

Thanks for the advice and I will do as you say. I think I can afford a 2004 model with 60k mileage if I bide my time.

One thing I forgot to ask you, you mentioned warranty, do you mean a 3m or 6m warranty which are advertised with the cars (on Autotrader). I was certainly planning on choosing a car that had one of these, just in case it developed problems on the drive home!

Or where you referring to a longer maybe 12m warranty that I take out after I have bought the car? I have never done this before and wouldn't know where to start!

Thanks again.

Most of the warranties offered by Traders are because the are legally required to, not for anything else.  From experiences reported on this Forum the majority of those warranties are nearly worthless as they have limitations on what they will pay out and are for the simplest cheapest fixes on lesser cars than a BMW.  I had one a few years back which had a claim limit of £50.  I needed a timing chain tensioner change (on an Opel Manta) that cost almost £500 - and the warranty wouldn't help.  The Trader didn't explain the limits, and I made damned sure
I never got caught out again. 

Realistically you need to look at companies like the AA, Warrantywise and Warranty Direct.  These warranties will provide much better levels of cover - but you will be paying more for them.

just a thaught but i do alot of miles 500-7/800 a week so i bought a high milage for age car cheap to just make it higher milage, why pay a premium for a low milage car to then do 20-25k miles ayear thus making it high milage in 2 years, mine was bought with 90k last year on a 06 55 plate (high for year) its now done 115k and has had nothing but brake pads for maintainance and brake pipes for mot, also i used to have a 3.0i lpg and their not as cheap as you think to run (they still need petrol) and best i ever managed on motorway was 26mpg so about 42 equivelent because of lpg price but my 3.0d will do 38mpg on motorway also if you go for higher milage your budget would get something maybe as new as mine, but deffo 04-55, make a high milage higher as oppose to a low milage high! just my opinion

X5Sport, Thanks I will take a look at these companies tomorrow. But can you give me a rough figure for what I would expect to pay for one of these warranties? Is it thousands of pounds a year?

shadrack, thanks I will look at high mileage models tomorrow, to see what year I could afford.

Apologies for not replying sooner. Some good advice above (apologies to you & others for any repetition -  I often type buying advice in haste).

As said lots of queries in the linked buyers guide ramblings I prior wrote.

I have a 2002 X5 4.4i Sport it has folding & auto dimming mirrors. As with all the V8's it comes with auto only.
Prefacelift autos are 5 speed units - more details on auto boxes within the buyers guide.

I bought mine in 2006 it had done about 59k miles it has 111k on the clock now.  Over 6 years I have done my best to keep it healthy though it has relieved my wallet in the process. It is still on the original gearbox - I have not had the so called lifetime fluid changed. I know someone who changed his 4.4i auto fluid twice the box has just failed. He is a knoweldgable guy but still faced with propsect has to get a new, recon box or cusing a proper repiar to be done.

The facelift 4.4i as said has 320HP over mine which has 286HP. The facelift 4.4i is more economical than mine. I average 19mpg but often drive a 15 min commute. At very steady motorway speeds 60mph I see 26-28mpg maybe a little more. Mpg can be 20% worse when cold, ( in 1st 15-20 mins driving).

3.0i more than adequate at legal speeds.

Do you have to have an auto ? A 3.0i or 3.0d manual won't come with auto box fears. 3.0i petrol manual more economical than 3.0i auto which is about 1mpg worse than 4.4i prefacelift on paper. 3.0d has better mpg than all petrols but turbos can fail costing lots to sort. For financial peace of mind re auto & turbo repiars then a 3.0i manual ticks boxes. Nice onces with comms pack, (which includes satnav), & nice spec are hard to find....Thought it will be a very big challenge to find one with leather, comms pack and folding mirrors (all options on the 3.0i), in your desired trim/colur preference in decent conduition with Full BMW History

If I wanted a 4x4 with reliability peace of mind I would maybe consider RAV4, (owned a 2003 from new) , it goes through twisties briskly as well as if not better than my X5. Nissan Murano has bomb proof detuned 350z engine and a rare sight on uk roads. Lexus RX fairly reliable too. A 2002 onwards Range Rover wont be much less reliable as it shares same engines and gearboxes as prefacelift X5 as well as other components. Full fat Range Rover L322 2002 onwards comfier place to live albeit it wont go trough twisty bends as nicely as the E53 X5.

Service costs vary for Oil Inspection, Insp 1  & Insp 2. On a V8 these will out average at about £4-£500 every 13-15k miles. Allow a conservative £1k p/a for sevicing and repairs maybe £2k to be safe.

I haven't done the exact maths on running mine. Since last august and in under 10k miles mine has had an auxillary fan, water pump and as a precution a thremostat that bill from recollection was over £1200 at an indy. I will be due an oil inspection soon so if it goes to main dealer, ( I have thus far kept up full BMW history for all Inspections/Services but may go to a BMW independent now it has done over 100k), I will pay another say £200 if I supply my own BMW approved oil. I recently had all discs pads sorted sourcing myself and paying an indy to do the job due to corroded fastenings that meant I couldnt do the job with confidence that was £500. Oh & I had a stabiliser bar replaced. My radio module needed replacing as did a power wqindown controller. I also had a battery drain issue associated with my old fashioned telephone module requiriung diagnostic & intervention so in for circa £2300 over 12 months & that's without fuel tax or tyre wear. When I replace my 19inch summer tyres that will be £1k if I go with like for like new Michelins maybe a few hundred less if I fit Toyo's.

You may think thats a bad year but I have also in last few years had to have rear subframe bushes replaced a balljoint, 2 header tanks, rocker gaskets 2 window regulators, 2 mirror glasses, thrust control wishbone bushes, front outer CV joint botts/gaiters a tailgate catch, a wiper controller, and fixed my satnav screen etc etc..........You should be getting the idea by now.........I have still enjoyed owning the car hence it's been mine for 6 years, however, it has made me frown at bills on occasions !

My car was a 2 owner example with full main dealer history. I drive sensibly apart from the odd progressive trip and have kept it properly serviced. Nothing has been replaced without me being convinced it needed doing.

Sure you could by a car with 60k miles but it may like mine require a few things being fixed/replaced over say the next 40-50k miles of ownership.

Of course some buy prior sorted cars, some get rid when they get a big bill or two. Mnay are oblivious of minor issues needing attention &/oro choose to leave such issues to the nest keeper.

As for warranties they ( & prices which can be haggled), have been discuused by many on here specifically including chat which you can view if you click here prices are mentioned if you look at discussions but also bear in mind excess or mandatory betterment costs dependant on mileage of the car.

I wasn't aware all trade/dealers had to supply a warranty. They are liable for any defect found within 6 months of a used sale unless they can prove otherwise. I believe that to avoid paying for repairs they either supply a warranty, (in house or 3rd party), & get you to refer any component failure post sale to the warrany provider. Most independent traders get you to pay for this either by inflated price or by geting a referral fee for pointing you towrads a specific warranty company.  As said you can take out your own. Having a warranty however, does not excuse a trade seller of their legal reponsibilities. In an ideal world a motor trade sale should give ytou piece of mind. Many buy off a forecourt or from home trader believing they can simply go back if something breaks for hassle free ownership. The reality is so often quiet different. This obviously stands for all makes & types used cars.

Without any doubt if considering LPG I would buy one that has already had a decent system installed.

For what it may be worth the 4.4i is significantly cheaper to insure than 4.6is or 4.8is. 3.0i & 3.0d more so. cars with 20 inch wheels cost more to buy rubber for but you dont have to buy top price brands to get decent  tyres. On subject of tyres many end up buying a winter set of wheels & tyres as some summer offerings can leave you a little vulnerbable in the snow.......not least Michelin Diamaris. 

Considetring I wrote the buyers guide you are probably seeing lot's of negatives. My X5 has been a great car but probaly the most costly car to run I have ever owned. I am not the exception my car is regarded as cherished. Others have had big bills some have been far luckier.

If heart set on a facelift 4.4i do bear in mind they can suffer from valley pan gasket failure which can be costly to sort. if buying a car with a panoramic roof bear in mind these cost lots to fix If they go wrong. car with adjustable suspension can be problematic to this was an optoin but standard on 4.6is & 4.8is.


Must stop typing........... Even boring myself now & longest post on here in ages.

I am not saying BMW's &/or E53 X5's are any more unreliable than other cars but merely sharing my ownership experienes thus far. I know folk with other makes/models of cars who have had big bills. You can draw your own conclusions.................Luck may be a factor too to some extent.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

Oh & welcome btw

Good morning AW8, thank you so much for your informative post. I was up early today reading about X5's again!

Yes my X5 has to be Automatic as I drive a lot in London and on the M25 and would never go back to a manual now. I will indeed look for a model that is already converted to PRINS LPG but this may be difficult considering my other requirements. Regarding folding mirrors, if I find an X5 that ticks every box except this one, can I buy them afterwards and have them fitted? Or does it not work like that?

I read the link you provided that discussed warranties, very interesting and I will certainly get one. However if I end up claiming will the premium be higher the next year? Or is it different to Insurance? No doubt I will back in the coming weeks with more questions on warranties to make sure I get the best deal. The AA BRC looks very good as well. I am currently with the AA for normal breakdown cover but not for repairs.

See what others who have claimed say but renewal premium post claiming shouldn't be too hiked up.

If doing considerable mileage & town driving I'd also consider a 3.0d Auto ideally with a new/replacement  gearbox &/or turbo.

Are congestion charges a factor ?

Yes - folding mirrors can be retro fitted but it will cost you dearly unless you source via say ebay & diy fit &/or get a competent BMW independent to fit same. More discussion re these mirrors on the site elesewhere.

Hi Sally and hope to see you with an X5 soon, female X5 owners are a (relatively) rare breed.  AW8's buyers guide and the other pointers on here should stand you in good stead, but just to add my tuppence........if at all possible, perhaps save up a while longer in order to get your budget to a level where you could buy a used X5 from a main BMW dealer rather than privately or an independent, it does make more a lot more peace of mind, certainly did in my case, and still does as I extended the BMW AUC warranty.

I have a fully tricked up 2005 4.8is much of which costs mega bucks to repair, so I was happy to pay the premium price for the car I really  wanted, after all life only happens once.  I did briefly own a 3.0i X5, which was not an AUC, it was lovely and a great spec, but there was a lingering doubt about it being a bit too underpowered for someone used to V8 engines, and there was a gearbox issue which I could not see Warranty Direct sorting without a massive fight, so I part exed it for my beloved and cherished 4.8is around 2 years ago.    The budget though, had to be a whole lot more than £8k, but it did come with the all important BMW AUC warranty which has been brilliant, and also has with it BMW Emergency which is about a million times better than RAC, AA and the other commercial breakdown bunch. My oil cooler popped on Xmas eve 2010 when the temps were down below -10 and between
BMW Emergency and the local main dealer, they had it back with a brand new oil cooler from Germany flown in for the car, the first working day after XMas and nothing to pay. Plus I have had the ULF module, parking sensors, gearbox seal, panoramic sunroof etc all sorted by them no hassle no quibble plus a nice loan car for as long as necessary.

The 4.8is is a bit more complex than some of the other models so more costly to repair, but I do love the car and if I cared that much about fuel consumption I would be driving an eco friendly Fiesta or something, not a V8.

So good luck with your search and hope you will get the X you really want sometime soon-  hope to see you on here soon with pics of the new car!