XSeries-forum

Hi All
I’m new here so please be easy on me!

Firstly I’d just like to convey that this forum is excellent with some active and very helpful folk. I hope that as time goes on, (and once I’ve acquired my E53!), I can also make many friendly (and helpful!) contributions.

I’ve been keeping tabs on the forum for the last few months, been in the market for a 2004/2005 X5 for around 4 months now but been faced with either dubious private sellers (including one who tried to flog me his X5 with outstanding finance on and still claimed he had no clue about the finance!) or over priced dealers.

I wondered what your collective recommendation/advice was on a question I’m sure has been asked before. What is the fuel consumption like on daily use of a 3.0i petrol? The wife and I cover around 8000 miles annually with mostly short journeys (<9 miles, with speeds not exceeding 50 mph) on a daily basis, and although I currently have a BMW 120D, my thoughts are that I am better off with a petrol variant of the E53 (given the higher comparative cost of the diesel and the higher cost of fuel, along with other issues such as turbo problems etc.).

Would you agree with my thoughts above, or am I better off going for a 3.0d in the long run?

Really appreciate your views and thanks

Saf

Saf,
Just to give you food for thought. I bought a 3.0d new in 2004 and then traded it for a 2004 4.8iS. Both are excellent cars. My thoughts on your diesel/petrol debate as follows -
1. Diesels seem to command a substantial premium second-hand over like-for-like 6 and 8 cylinder petrols based on better mpg and lower running costs.
2. You can do the maths, but your annual mileage needed to "recoup" the difference can be substantial.
3. The mpg difference for short trips is less. I used both cars to commute in London and the 4.8is gets 20 mpg versus 25 for the previous diesel. The petrols are quite efficient.
4. Personal view but diesels prefer longer trips and being fully warmed -up. Never liked the cloud of black smoke in the morning.
5. Mpg advantage of 3.0 over 4.4 is slight.
My favourite (and what I started looking for before coming across a mint 4. is the facelift 4.4 (320 bhp). There are usually a few one owner well cared for and specced cars around for good money and cheaper than similar diesels.
Good luck

I don't expect great cold engine urban mpg from my prefacelft 4.4i .........15mpg likely. On a 6 mile commute on mainly flat roads and 30/40/50 limit roads I am usually averaging 22-24 mpg.

A said may report quiet good mpg from 4.8is the 4.4i facelift with 320HP makes sense with similar official combined mpg to 3.0i and an extra 89hp.

Mpg on manual 3.0i is better albeit quiet a rare find with nice spec It seems some failed to tick auto option box to keep purchase cost down rather than due to favouring manual box.

For urban stop start I would want auto all the way.

X3 2.0d auto shouldnt be dismissed if seeking decent mpg.

Thanks gobiman and AW8 (the legend himself! Your buying guide is excellent) for the really prompt responses.

gobiman - agree with your thoughts generally. I always thought that my annual mileage of circa 8000 miles doesn't warrant a diesel engine. I can feel the impact on my BMW 120D where the engine now feels less refined due to all the short journeys, engine not warming up enough etc.

AW8 - would never consider a manual X5, just doesn't seem right! Anyway I've driven manuals for years, I now feel like abit of complacency for which the auto will be perfect. Funny you mentioned the X3 which is what I first started looking at, discounted it swiftly though as they just look too...weedy I guess...compared to the X5 (latest generation X3's are alot better).

Consistent in the advice from both of you is the consideration of the of the 4.4i as opposed to the 3.0i. I've always tended to stay away from the 4.4i due to the anticipated costs compared to the straight 6 3.0i. My assumptions have always been:

1) The 4.4i will be costlier to maintain (i.e. servicing, warranty etc) compared to the 3.0i
2) There are inherent costly problems with the 4.4i, with for instance the auto box, compared to the 3.0i
3) Insurance costs are higher
4) Future resale value to larger engine X5's isn't that great, the 4.x's tend to depreciate faster than the 3.0i

Do you think these stand correct?

Hi,

I have a 2005 3.0d Manual and I love it. I get over 30 to the gallon which is great. When looking to purchase this car I had a remit of buying a Facelift model in Estoril Blue with No Sat Nav or Tv Screens and a Manual Gearbox. This took me 18 months but well worth the wait. I have had it 18 months now and love it as much as i did when i 1st saw it advertised. I found diesels to be more expensive to buy initially and I do 14000 miles a year and found little difference with offsetting costs between Petrol/Diesel. Less time in the Petrol Garage swung it for me.

Hope this is of help

Jt

Saf,
My thoughts on your points would be that yes, in all those areas the 4.4 could be more expensive but not massively so. Most consumables - oil, tyres, brakes - cost the same. Furthermore the 4.4 is less stressed and is a good reliable engine. In facelift (320 bhp) it has been thoroughly well engineered. On depreciation, you are towards the bottom of the curve and the 4.4s will have depreciated more than the 3.0.
Also 4.4s tend to be better specced as both standard and with options. I have to say I am biased - I love the V8. The BMW 6 cylinder engines are great (have one in my Z1) but I think the V8 is the one to have in the X5.
I decided to have one now before we all end up in Nissan Leafs.

I agree with most of the comments above but am a complete diesel convert and have been since the 80's.

I have never experienced any turbo issues on the 3 Bimmers we have but then I always ensure a proper warm up, and cool down again if coming off a long motorway run. The gearbox failures you allude to can occur at any time and on any model. No X5 is 100% safe, but you would still be very unlucky if you do get a failure. Do your homework carefully and thoroughly check everything, both engine hot and engine cold! There are lots to choose from, so walking away is a simple choice wherever any doubts arise, especially on servicing.

on all of my 3.0i (I have had three, two E53s and an E70) consumption came in around 22mpg average over the lifetime. The E70 was slightly better, but nowhere near the claimed 25.9 of BMW. I had manual boxes on the E53s, not for cost saving reasons, but simply because I liked manual at the time. However having had an auto in the E70 and surgery on my left knee - I am an auto convert. I now drive a diesel Q7.....but that is a different story.

As a self confessed V8 nut I am now convinced that diesel is the way forward since buying my facelift 3.0d Sport. Average is just over 30 with mostly short runs and 35.7 driving it from Billingshurst to Biddenden. It's off to Italy tomorrow morning so I am expecting closer to 40 on that run. Considering the weight of the car the 218 horses perform very well indeed and it's no slouch in the traffic light grand prix. There really is no downside to the modern diesel in my view.

When I had my 4.6 my average over nearly 15k miles was 20.2mpg with a lot of motorway work.

Having tested a diesel X5 I would have gone that route if I hadn't come across the V8 with lpg I own now, so maybe another option to look at?

I am 100% with Denis O above.

No doubt the 4.8 is a wonderful piece of engineering. But in these days of austerity and with fuel around £1.40/litre , stopping at the modern day highwayman (gas station!), to 'fill er up' every 350-380 miles vs. every 550-600 miles (Diesel) is an absolute no-brainer to myself. And that coming from someone who has their fuel paid for by the company! Also, maybe its just me, but I find it such a chore pulling into the gas station for nigh on 15 minutes (its takes a long time to fill a 93 litre tank!).

incidentally, If you ever wish to tow anything or carry heavy loads the Diesel comes into its own with its torque, especially against the 3.0i.

Thank you all for your helpful comments and views.

X5Sport – love the Vermilion red E71, first one I’ve seen in that colour!

Gobiman – you really do come across as a V8 fan and you’ve probably swayed me in to at least test driving a 4.4i facelift if I can get my hands on a decent one. Got a feeling though that I’ll be devilishly bowled over by the V8 roar!

Tombs – haven’t considered an LPG as yet but will keep an eye out for these also, with the fuel coming in at half the price of unleaded it seems a no brainer!

Brewer and Denis O – I see your point about the diesel longevity, though I’ve just done some quick calculations based on cost of fuel along with average MPG for both the 3.0i and 3.0d and with my annual mileage, the savings achieved through diesel amount to around £380 a year. With the average diesel X5 commanding a premium of some £1500 compared to the petrol variant, it would take some 4 years for me to recoup the cost. That’s my rationale I guess…

Thanks once again to everyone. I guess I’m now better informed and will stick to my search for petrol engined X5. If you know of anyone wanting to sell their well specced 2004(54)/2005 X5 with average mileage and sensibly priced I may be interested (the wife says it has to be in black though!)

Glad you like E53 Buyers Guide - Thanks (I have just edited & added some extra info btw). You have already had some great replies & my comments not

[quote=""saf_b21""]

1) The 4.4i will be costlier to maintain (i.e. servicing, warranty etc) compared to the 3.0i
2) There are inherent costly problems with the 4.4i, with for instance the auto box, compared to the 3.0i
3) Insurance costs are higher
4) Future resale value to larger engine X5's isn't that great, the 4.x's tend to depreciate faster than the 3.0i

[/quote]

1) Cost to fix &/or have (non inspection/oil service), work done either on 3.0i or 4.4i facelift of same age will be identical labour rate at main dealer or indy. Inspection/oil, service costs are a little higher on V8's but one or two sizeable bills for additional work or repairs can make the inspection cost differences pretty irrelevant as unexpected bills on either car can ammount to more than difference in inspection charges. Specialist Indy costs for extra jobs typically cheaper than dealer. Warranty may be more but you can haggle independent warranty quote(s). If you find one with BMW warranty then you won't have to pay for it until renewal but maybe get renewal quotes before comitting. 3.0i & 4.4i share same components which will cost same hourly rate to replace/fix/sort e.g battery, bushes, cv boots, window regulators,tyres,brakes. (N.B. 4.8is or 4.6is have bigger & more expensive brakes & tyres on cars with 20" wheels will be more expensive- these usually on Lemans spec or "i.s." cars).

2) ZF 6 speed not immune from problems as fitted to 4.4i facelift. GM 5 speed unit perhaps not as sturdy or modern but I am no technical guru. I have added more info on auto boxes to the buyers guide. 4.4i facelift has potential for an expensive coolant system related issue & 3.0i has potential for expensive hydrolock problem in very extreme cold.....both issues rarely reported on these boards.

3) Only you will know if maths is right so check quotes. (4.6is & 4.8is usually far more to insure btw).

4) Not compared residuals in last quarter so cant advise. V8's never going to be a residual rock especially in current with times. 4.4i facelift actually has better extra urban mpg than the 3.0i auto albeit by a whisker.I have made recent mpg additions to the buyers guide.If residuals & costs are the priority then 3.0d has to be considered as regardless of break even £'s point such issues may niggle.


3.0i is a good car - a little lighter on nose than my V8 & urgent enough making sensible progress at legal speeds. It's only at brisker or autobahn speeds that the 3.0i will show it's lesser ability to fight off aerodynamic & issues compared to the V8's.

I should fairly point out that my car, (now owned for 40k miles), has needed significant money spent to keep it in fine form. Regardless of engine size be realistic as to what you are potentially buying into

Some in your position might ask themselves the following...( No need for you to share answers here).

- If I buy a 3.0i will I always be significantly niggled because I didn't buy a V8 ?

- If I buy a 3.0i will I be easily able to switch to a V8 without significant expense, hassle or difficult reasoning issues ?

- Is the engine size dilema about costs or perhaps also some sub concious V8 guilt issues ?

- Regardless of engine size can family budget cope with running & properly maintaining a used X5 ?


Not trying to put you off - You are asking sensible questions btw.

HTH

Just to add another view, which subjective though it may be, comes from someone who has owned both a 3.0i and a 4.8is. I can't speak for the diesel as I cannot imagine ever wanting one - I have a diesel company car and that's quite enough oil burning for one household!

the 3.0i - echo AW8s comments- it was a good performer, mine was well-specced, fuel consumption disappointing for the size of engine (but it has to work almighty hard in a big car body). I used to get around 23mpg max, but many owners state much lower mpg. I never drive cars like I stole them, and I do do a lot of long commutes, which helps the mpg. I part-exchanged for a 4.8 before any major issues arose, but the transmission did worry me - I was having the Cold Start problem which had a TSB in the US but BMW UK resolutely refused to recognise the need to exchange the box, of course - this was a recognised fault in which the gearbox oil leaked beyond some internal seal and when started up from cold, it would engage reverse quite easily, but there was a frustrating lag in engaging Drive which really in some circumstances, could have been rather dangerous, until some 20-30 seconds of pressure increasing in the gearbox and then it would engage and drive along happily until the next cold start, usually overnight, started the whole saga again. None of the auto boxes are immune from breakdown - lots of posts on this, expensive heartache for some owners across all the models, some very early failures at 30-odd thousand miles, others still happy at 100k+.

Personally, I missed the big V8, and hankered after one, so when I found a fantastic spec one at Hexagon, I made the change, despite the 4.8 being overpriced. I missed the 3.0i briefly - it was a nice colour and spec - but was just so much happier in the V8. It also came with the BMW AUC warranty which has been worth its weight in gold, as I had the oil cooler pop its clogs on Xmas Eve (expensive) and two rather odd non-starting incidents, a BT module replaced entirely FOC when it played up and some parking sensors. Haven't had to pay a penny in repairs yet and will renew AUC warranty when it comes up.

Plus fuel consumption is BETTER than the 3.0i - I have got up to 30mpg on long runs!!!!

So for me, the V8 wins every time, but not everyone has the same situation - I have choice of a few cars to drive at home so V8 petrol costs not an overriding issue for me and I bought it knowing a £72K car when new was never going to have the running costs of a Fiesta.

Hope you find the colour and spec you want - we all manage to be friends on here whatever the model of X you drive!!!!

Diesel convert myself, the X is superb as a diesel, I'll only go back to petrol if it's mid a engined V and really screams, hmmm decisions decisions