XSeries-forum

Was playing around with the latest industry car residuals data. Makes interesting reading. Knocked-up a spreadsheet comparing prestige SUVs.

The BMWs come out especially well...


Residual values JPG by SimonD2011, on Flickr

Glad to see my X5 40d SE nearly at the top with 50%.

Surprised that the 50i did quite well too at 48%!

I've included some "outliers" at the bottom as an eye-opener.
Run a big Citroen for £850/month or an Audi Q7 V8 for the same money? Your choice!

Publically available data at:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-depreciation-calculator/

Interesting figures indeed,albeit I'd take them with a pinch of salt I would be very interested to see what CAP guides these vehicles at and compare to the above. A little surprised to see the Lexus in the low 40's. Not sure what source WhatCar gather their info from, has it a guess that maybe from contract hire/leasing companies. IMO there are still very few e70's around the early £20k mark, the ones that are have done some mileage and look a little sorry for themselves.

This brings me on to the question of, why do people decide to buy brand new cars of any make? There have been quite a few new members join xdrivers over the last few months showing us all there shinny new e7x's I for one love to see the pics and the chat associated with new spec/options but I always have in the back of my mind the issue of depreciation, nearly £700 a month in some cases excluding fuel, tax, servicing and so on. While its clear some of you are private owners are any of you company drivers? if so was the monthy lease more competitive than other vehicles in this segment?

I clearly understand some of you may not wish to respond to the above, but I would be interested if you are a private owner as to why you didn't wait 6-9 months for a late registered example?

Fascinating thought, Chompers.

Why buy new? This obviously has more to do with psychology than economics. A certain personality type (extrovert, egotistical, feeling rather than thinking, am thinking along Myers Briggs lines here) will want to buy new because of the feeling the process engenders.

We like being pampered by the dealer. We like the control over the spec. We like having the latest kit. We salivate with anticipation during the build process in South Carolina. That car is being made just for you. We pray for calm seas during the trans-Atlantic voyage. We like knowing that no one else has abused our baby. We get to control the run-in process. We like to know our neighbours clock the vehicle on our drives on March 1st or September 1st. And we love - SO LOVE - that first breath of "new car smell" when you open the door for the first month. That's the most expensive perfume in the world .... £13000 a bottle according to my figures above. It's the most beautiful aroma in the world, and thoroughly addictive [Available at Halfords for £4.99 - Ahem].

Yes, exactly as I thought and who can blame you if your in a position to be able to do so. But I would also guess that if you have got the kind of money to buy an e7x of some discription, you've got t pretty good job, have saved hard and have been clever with money in general, all to end up throwing loads of it down the exhaust pipe on a daily basis

To a certain extent agree with all of above and there are certain parts of buying a new car that are enjoyable. The last new car I bought was a 330cd vert back in 05, at the time just me and the new Mrs Chompers. Couldn't find a late example around as the car had only been out a few months and the demos that were around were available were near on new money. Popped in to a dealer and there in the showroom was 'THE' car to the spec we wanted and with £5k off before we even talked about the p/x. Come summer 06 and our first was born, baby + vert = PITA, so swapped out of the vert for an ex-demo e91 touring. We lost near on £6k in those few months and vowed never to buy new again and have purchased our last 4 BMW's all late registered with significant savings on new price.

"Pampered by the dealer" very rare in this day and age and is a lost art IMHO.

Each to there own I guess and we all do money buying cars right from shinney new ones to the humble 11 year old e53. I guess we will never learn but there are ways to reduce the impact.

I can see many reasons why some buy new including wanting a specific spec and colour/trim combo. Aditionally its reassuring to know you have driven the car from new & thus the peace of mind the car hasnt been abused or ill treated.

Sourcing exceptions would include seeking something no longer produced or perhaps something currently manufactured but with a long waiting list.

I have only ever been fortunate enough to buy 2 new cars in the last 8 years.

Certainly being pampered by the dealer has never been a motivator for me & I have been treated far better when eating in reasonable restaraunts.

Number plate snobbery - Not for me as when I last bought new I put a private plate on within a few weeks.

Getting one up on neighbours - I've never been one to parade my car even when living on developments with neighbours overlooking.

I bought one car new simply as I could & because I had gone years of driving cars with multiple previous owners. The second new car bought, (my 2003 RX-8), was so purchaed simply because it was a launch model & not available used, (RX-8 not best car to buy used as easy to run low on oil with this undetected by buyer).

If I had my own business that was doing well, the business could cope with new car outlay without detriment to same then I'd happily buy new & particulary if desiring a specific colour/trim & spec.

A private buyer not owning a business might want to be satisfied that other more important outgoings were first covered,such as mortgage, pension provision & sufficent funds aside for other matters such as childrens education, holidays & healthcare if so desired. For some these matters are lower priorities than a new car.

Just as some with used prestige cars cant see the rationale in buying new, many with non prestige used cars can't see the logic in buying used prestige may citing high running costs as their reasoning plus.

The old favourite cliche used by folk who try to to justify running mundane stuff........." A car is merely to get from A to B."

Folk have said to me they would never spnd that much on a car, yet I know someone who just spent £5,500 on a used Seat Ibiza 1.4 whereas even if I was prone to the Seat badge I would have sought an unmolested Leon Cupra R.

Interstingly folk who buy more mundane stuff still talk fondly of handling and their cars being quiet nippy so I am not convinced they crave A-B transport.

Currently I cant justify buying new & niether do I expect to be able to justify buying new anytime soon. Similarly I cant justify buying anything that interests me near new so whilst I would love a 2008 or later E70 or a 1 yrs old X6 I simply cant presently justify the outlay. To me I could no easier justify buying a used car for £25k than I clould buying new for £35k.

Sure some rub hands together at saving buy purchasing a one owner, however, others see it illogical to buy this early and would rub hands together when buying a car from the 2nd 3rd or subesequent owners.

I guess ione cuts ones cloth accordingly albeit there will always be exceptions to this as can be clearly evidenced by the high number of low mileage cars frequently auctioned by BMW finance. There is more to success than being able to enter into a fiance or contract plan & many a person many thousands in debt with a shiny new car on the drive.

For many using finance to buy ( whether new, approved used or with a bank loan), car outlay merely represents a cost of £ X per month.

If sensible hard working or prior hard working folk can afford to buy new & it makes them happy............ then Good Luck to them

"Pampered by the dealer".

I actually feel fortunate with my experience with this particular guy in North London. I will not name him. I've bought several new BMWs off him over the last 5 years. We now "know" each other - he has a direct financial interest in keeping me happy (i.e. his not insignificant commissions). I know it is not altruism, but it is a win-win outcome. He is a detail guy - so I am - he knows his product. [This was not the very definitely not the case at Mercedes Chelsea, who seemed to have terrible product knowledge].

I was sure I wanted a metallic vermillion red X5 when I ordered last autumn. The guy would not take the order. He convinced me that this was a poor move, for many reasons, including when it came to trade-in time. Red on an X5? No. X6? Yes - he would have allowed that. I ordered metallic black in the end. Whilst I was initially frustrated, he ultimately guided me in the right direction.

Contrast this with the dealer at Porsche Canary Wharf who was bragging to me on my Cayenne test drive about all the crazy inappropriate options he was letting customers order on their Cayennes. He convinced a guy to spend £30k on options on his £45k diesel Cayenne (including Carbon Ceramic Brakes! On the diesel!). Now that IS madness.

We have too much choice as consumers. It's bewildering. Studies show that "buyer's regret" always tarnishes the buying experience these days. Purchasers were happier with outcomes in Soviet Russia when only one product was available.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... essed.html

Now, when I want a computer or gadget - Apple Store only. Big electrical product? Sony store. Clothes - John Lewis menswear floor.
New car? This bloke at BMW.

I am soooooooooooooooooooooo fussy (did I mention I was fussy ? ) when it comes to cars. I could not cope with the smallest of dents or scratches so my new metal will look identical x number of years on. I run the car extremely careful as well engine wise, i.e. slow warm up driving around, never getting the revs up until the oil is at running temperature after which all systems go. Again, I would not want the risk of someone revving it from stone cold which would leave me, as the second owner, with a major repair later on.

Nobody seems to be as anal as I am, so finding a second hand car in perfect condition would be simply impossible.

Understand all above valid points. All I was asking earlier is why would you buy brand new instead of nearly new i.e. ex BMW staff/management or dealer demo/pre reg? Yes I to would take a much longer & more detailed look at a 2/3+ year old car. But any of the previous mentioned cars would come with remainder of new car warranty very rarely will they have done that many miles and will normally be of good/top spec, all this with a nice chunk of money off. I'm not tring to funny about this subject and have a genuine interest in this subject area as I have previous professional knowlege of the motor trade as both AW8 & PVR know.

[quote=""SimonD""]"Pampered by the dealer".

I actually feel fortunate with my experience with this particular guy in North London. I will not name him. I've bought several new BMWs off him over the last 5 years. We now "know" each other - he has a direct financial interest in keeping me happy (i.e. his not insignificant commissions). I know it is not altruism, but it is a win-win outcome. He is a detail guy - so I am - he knows his product. [This was not the very definitely not the case at Mercedes Chelsea, who seemed to have terrible product knowledge].

I was sure I wanted a metallic vermillion red X5 when I ordered last autumn. The guy would not take the order. He convinced me that this was a poor move, for many reasons, including when it came to trade-in time. Red on an X5? No. [size=99px]X6? Yes[/size] - he would have allowed that. I ordered metallic black in the end. Whilst I was initially frustrated, he ultimately guided me in the right direction.

Glad you mentioned this bit, otherwisw X5Sport would be after you

Contrast this with the dealer at Porsche Canary Wharf who was bragging to me on my Cayenne test drive about all the crazy inappropriate options he was letting customers order on their Cayennes. He convinced a guy to spend £30k on options on his £45k diesel Cayenne (including Carbon Ceramic Brakes! On the diesel!). Now that IS madness.
[/quote]

I'm glad you have found some who is on your side and is keen to please, as you found a very, very rare beast in any London dealership, Porsche Canary Wharf point in question!!! only one reason to have a dealership there and that is to take the pi$$ out of all those bankers with bonuses burning a hole in their pockets. I have to say the further away from home I have looked to buy a car the better the service has been and would advicate doing some leg work as aposed to just going to the local/closest dealer and handing over the cheque.

I've bought all three of Xs new, and putting up with the depreciation is a small price to pay in comparison to company car tax. A 55k X5 would incur 7.7k tax per year as a company car and given most companies give a cash alternative as well it means I have about 13k per year to play with to fund my vehicle. Sure I could buy a one year old car and save a stack of money but it isn't a huge difference and one I am prepared to put up with for the benefit of buying new.

I think that I'm a lot like you pvr in that I am very wary about buying second hand, especially if you find something does go wrong and the 'warranty' offered is almost worthless. Having been bitten once and badly when I bought a second hand Manta GT/E many moons ago that promptly needed a major engine overhaul that I then could not afford, I have been very carful since.

I know I'm going to lose a pile of money on the X6, but I got the spec I wanted with the right colours too. I had looked at nearly new ones, but the toys weren't there, the new 40d engine and 8sp gearbox was about to arrive, and I could just afford it. So I bought new. Whether I can ever do it again is doubtful, and as I'm constantly reminded, you can't take it with you! I have no kids (yet) so no one to leave anything to other than my wife. The cats can't drive, at least I don't think the little beggars can..............yet!

[quote=""X5Sport""]..... Having been bitten once and badly when I bought a second hand Manta GT/E many moons ago that promptly needed a major engine overhaul that I then could not afford, I have been very carful since.
:[/quote]

A Manta GTE, that's showing your age. LOL. Always wanted one of those as a young driver, either that or a MKI Astra GTE.
Oops, am I getting older too?

Sorry for the hijack, please feel free to continue as you were.


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Thanks again for your thoughts guys, makes for interesting reading albeit still surprised knowone has gone the late reg/ex-demo route. I do take your coments onboard X5Sport about buying a new model/engine variant, we only have to go back 9/10 years when the e53 3.0d came out, these as most will remember were on a 12/18 waiting list with demos being forward sold the day they were registered. e46 M3 verts also came under the supply and demand umbrella and to my knowlege were the last BMW's to make premiums over list (excluding the current M3 GTS ) Now it seems as soon as a new model is launched a raft of "ex-management" cars grace the pages of the AUC site, indeed demo LCi e70's were on the AUC site before the official BMW launch date!!!

May be I'm in the minority on here, but as a private buyer I do see big monetary advantages of going the late reg route

Interesting thread...
Why buy new - for me it's simple - I have been looking at X5 for a while. I could not find approved used low mileage X5, with particular specification/trim combination so had to order a new one. Taking into account all the discounts on new car I got from the dealer it works out just 2-3k more then approved used but exactly what I wanted. List price was 56.5k and I got it for 50k (maybe not the best discount but worked out for my budget )

I've noticed that prices for approved used low mileage / ex-demo X5 is higher then a month or two ago, so maybe it's driven by supply and demand.

According to BMW financing, guaranteed future value for X5 xdrive30d SE will be £27,133 after 2 years and £22131.38 after 3 years, but market value might be higher depending on your actual specs and mileage.

starting with the residuals - when I sold the 535 and the A4 Cab, I did secure 50% (almost as predicted by the press) after three years of ownership which is quite good I think, BUT 50% of a big number is still a lot of hard cash lost!

However why do I buy new

1) I tend to buy models very early in their life cycle so there just are not demos/nearly new to buy
2) On both BMWs I have optioned the cars up by about £10k, and also significantly (can't remember) on the Audis because that is the spec I want. I don't want to have a car that would basically suit me, I want a car that will suit me.
3) Like PVR I want to know how the car has been treated from Day 1. I know how I treat loan cars and I'm sure I am not the only one!

PS I have seen an X5 in X5Sports colour and I thought it looked really nice

Ok, more very valid reasons for going the new route from both you guys

@acideraser - Yep understand your position and when you factor in a good discount of list as you have got then this starts to of set the depreciation daal and chain and understand that tailoring spec to exactly what you want is nice if a little on the costly side.

@535dboy - here also what you say and had also expected your responce bearing in mind that you also choose vehicles that were at the time of order, not available in the used market place.

Let me put my point to you all if I may, after which I will get my coat and leave you all in peace

The last 2 car I purchase were my 520d & Mrs Chompers 1er. My car was an ex-dealer demo with just under 6k miles that was run by the MD of the local B&O dealer (so one driver) car was 6 months old when purchased and the price was £10k off list with £1.5k for my e53 V8 than any other dealer of which I had spoken to inexcess of 25 dealers + the best part of £250 accessories were thrown in, couple this with the fact that my car had quite a few optional extras over and above what I was looking for,meant it was a deal that had to be done.

Mrs Chompers 1er was also purchased at 6 months old with 1,200 miles on the clock and was an ex-BMW car, this we bought with out a p/x and paid just under £18k which equated to just over £8.5 k off list, again with a very good spec and more than we had been looking for.

I have to say I can't see me ever buying a brand new car, when there are very good late used deals to be had. Both our cars have been faultless bat a punchure on the 1er, both cars came from their respective dealers in an unmarked and flawless condition, I would also add that both were purchased over the phone and deposit paid with out site of the vehicle until the day of collection.

For me, buying this way makes sence and to you guys the way you purchased your makes sence to you, everybody is happy