XSeries-forum

Hi all quick query to all 3.0d owners, when you turn the key to start(and assuming temps are say over 15c) does you X5 jump straight to life? or do you as in my case hear a 3 stage drrr drrr drrr so to speak as it fires up?

Should start almost immediately, <1 second.

I had a problem for a long time, where it would crank for 3-5 seconds and then start.  Often met with "Frans fail safe" error.  On the odd occasion it failed to start first time at all and would drain the battery.

Solved after (after much false diagnosis) with a new starter motor.  Around £150 fitted.

Mine starts instantly regardless of temp down to -5, with a half second blip on the keys.

It does however like to do a preheat for a couple of seconds when sub zero, and it runs a little better if I notice & allow it to do the pre-heat...

Thanks for the 2 replies , good to know, I am gonna take the plunge and go for a new starter - if 'they' are gonna go through the hassle of removing it to check it, may as well replace it rather than recondition, have read connectors to it maybe loose causing start issues,  well dunno they look soild to me

What has annoyed me is when I took x5  to both mechanic and autoelectrician one of who load tested the battery whilst starting up and also the charging system, he never mentioned the startup sounded laboured.....sent a video of my startup with good audio to some bmw mechanic fella on forum,  thousands of miles away ...and he was good enough to tell me it sounded hesitant on startup...thanks again to all....

[quote="omodos"]
Thanks for the 2 replies , good to know, I am gonna take the plunge and go for a new starter - if 'they' are gonna go through the hassle of removing it to check it, may as well replace it rather than recondition, have read connectors to it maybe loose causing start issues,  well dunno they look soild to me

What has annoyed me is when I took x5  to both mechanic and autoelectrician one of who load tested the battery whilst starting up and also the charging system, he never mentioned the startup sounded laboured.....sent a video of my startup with good audio to some bmw mechanic fella on forum,  thousands of miles away ...and he was good enough to tell me it sounded hesitant on startup...thanks again to all....
[/quote]

they can look as solid as you want!! and even a few mm movement on nipping up was enough for my car not to start, to then start.  Put a shifter on it and just nip it up man, you cant check via your eyes, and fingers, you need to put a shifter on it and ensure fully nipped up. 

My car failed to start, all looked tight, felt tight, nip it up as a test anyhow before you start throwing parts at it!!

I changed started for a new Bosch one, car still failed to start, this fault was found, and car burst into life.

Its worth checking before you throw money at it.


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kjb1 ta for reply, excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by "Put a shifter on it and just nip it up" you means tightening up further the starter leads jump points etc with a spanner? off topic a bit but,  its pretty annoying X5 starts but is laboured 3-4 seconds to start I would say(got worse as it got cold, fuel pump ok hear it whirring, battery ok, alternator ok)....not right apparently, you reckon loose/dirty connections could also cause an amp draw at startup of over 400amps?

either way thanks again gonna get it off the ctek charger disconnect battery and then do some tightening of that the jump points first...if its this then I will notice a difference, thanks again

Start at the beginning  and check the battery mine was the same and it had the wrong battery fitted , it was rated at 85 amp 640  cold cranking and now I've fitted a 100 amp 830 cold cranking and it fires up straight away.

Go over everything and tighten up with spanner etc, spray bit of wd40 on jump start terminal even!

Have you put a code reader on to check you are not getting fuel issues? does it get worse if its a warm start? ie car has been running and fully warmed up after journey, you knock it off, then start after 5 mins and turnover is longer?


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Mine starts straight away.

I agree with TimX5 and the others. I doubt it will be the Starter Motor.

Bad cranking is attributed to the battery and rated amperage supplied at cranking. The only time I had cranking like you state, the battery was on the way on the way out, and it was long until I got in the car and just had click, click, click.. The battery had died overnight.

I have a 200amp battery in mine now with a CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) of 1000 amps, doesn't miss a beat.

For an E53 diesel, the battery must supply about 800 amps cold cranking (doesn't mean the battery has to be about 800 amps rated, just a CCA of 800amps+) and as TimX5 stated, a 100 Amp rated battery should be the minimum.

Have you still got the original battery or has the battery been replaced? I would check the ratings, age of battery.

Have you checked the voltages at cranking?

It could be a loose connection on the battery terminals themselves (and the starter motor connections as stated by kjb1. Have you checked they are tight?

If the battery is new and is rated as it should be then, then maybe the alternator isn't charging it properly.

Hi fellas appreciate All  replies alas no code reader used on it BUT here is my story and appreciate your patience e53 3.0d 2004 sport:

I get sluggish starts 3-4 grrrs before it starts. even today at 12.5C and  having charged the battery with my CTEK (glow plugs should not need to kick in should they at that temp?)
Data:
1 year old Battery  bosch S5  830cca and 100aH load tested at 3 places all come back as ok
(changed 9 years old oem last year due to same symptoms at same time of year and was fine up until this year when temps dropped again, but before you say battery please read on)
Voltage on the battery after a full charge is 13.33V then after 6 hours was 12.94v so this is ok accoring to the BMW TIS that shows state of charge I think
'they' tested CCA of battery off car after I had fully charged it, and it came back as 789cca and then next day 792cc again over the OEM 720cca rating needed for the X5 3.0d
Charging system ok too when checked at garage.  also checked this via the OBC option 9 and also via jump points whilst car was –starting- idle- and also being driven
(via the obc it was 12.2-12.3v before start,dropping momentarily to 9.4-9.6 on starting,  and then  to 13.9-14.0v idling and driving,  about 13.6V MIN whilst driving with  accessories on radio, xenons, aircon, foglights, that I rarely do)

So battery checks out - Charging system is ok...., yes?

NOW based on alot I have read on this forum my attention was drawn to faulty starter motors on 2003-2004 X5s and all posts seem to 3.0d having the issue soooooo....
Used an Amp meter - amp clamp around battery cable and set it to 400amps (mistake), started X5 and the reading maxes out over 400amp draw when I started it ( so amps rise then I got a  0L message on the amp clamp which I guess mean’t  (0 verload L oad ?) and then it drops to 392 and back down)...I have a feeling this is gradually draining my battery as I don’t drive X5 enough to keep up with the amp draw on start, and regardless of whether the battery is in good nick or not the amp draw is too hard on it causing the laboured start?

After more googling, what has jumped into the equation now is also the fuel pump relay behind the glovebox….although I can hear the pump whirring in the rear when I leave key in position 2 as test before starting X5 am I confused or what? any feedback much much appreciated

PS I am gonna take the battery for a final load test again

Fuel pump relay will not cause sluggish starting.  When mine failed the car cranked normally but would not fire at all.

If the fuel pressure has dropped then you should here the system run when you first unlock the car, at least that is what mine did.

Richard

Ok, so you have done some tests... Did they fully test the alternator under different loads? Watching voltages isn't really testing the alternator.

Mine is 13.2v when sitting (even after 5 days sitting, I measured it at 12.6v) and never drops below 12V when starting (then again, it does start straight away, so it mightn't get a chance to), the voltage you state seems too low when you are idling or driving you should be getting at least 14.7/14.8v whether you have accessories on or not. The alternator should compensate for the different loads. You shoul dnever drop to 13.6v when your are idling or driving.

Glow Plugs I think only kick in about 1.5 (or 2.5) deg Celsius - somewhere around that I think. :noexpression:

Maybe a silly question, but how do you start? Do you just turn the key fully and crank, or do you turn the key to pos 1, wait a few seconds and then turn to start (as though you are letting the glow plugs warm up, even though they might not be coming on)? I do the later

Isn't a 2003 engine different to a 2004 version (2004 is a facelifted version or is yours a very early 2004?). I don't know if they used the same starter. I have only heard that when the starter motor is faulty, it just locks up.

I hope I am not confusing you, just throwing ideas out there. As I mentioned, I am no expert, but after owning the X5 diesel for 5 years, I have done a lot of research.

I still agree with the others to make sure all connections are screwed up tight.

Hopefully some others can chime in to with some ideas for you.

Ta for reply fella, sorry to give a quote and answer type scenario

"Did they fully test the alternator under different loads" No idea how they were testing they just hooked up a load tester to jump point cranked over engine twice and told me charging system is ok

Hmm I dont get anywhere near your 13.2 via obc before starting and I dont get
14.7/14.8v when idling or running

I start your way:

" turn the key to pos 1, wait a few seconds and then turn to start (as though you are letting the glow plugs warm up, even though they might not be coming on)?"BUT been told to this is not required

Nope mine is a facelift 2004 November build, yes I guess different to the pre facelift

"I still agree with the others to make sure all connections are screwed up tight." just tightened the only nuts i could the +ve jump start point in engine bay that does lead to starter/solenoid....cant hear a difference on starting though

All though I am beginning to believe more and more it could be the starter draw, and whacked out battery put it on the ctek charger that that pumps out 5A, 12-14v and is showing it needs charging.....be interesting to see what others get re charging system voltages as such, i thought mine were well in range of being ok

The wait a few moments before cranking is required, particularly if the battery is poor.  It allows the systems to boot up properly.  Mine was the same vintage as yours and BMW told me it was needed.

I still do it on my 2011 X6.

Richard

Richard, I actually did this startup tactic since day 1, to be honest cranking it up this way or the direct to ignition gives me the same grr grr grr then bingo (in the space of 3-4 seconds) gonna get the battery charged up fully (as I am sure the starting is sapping its power too much) and getting the cca measured tomorrow for the 4th time and see.

If the load tests say good, gonna focus on the starter amp draw and hope someone out there is better clued up than me on what a max amp draw shold be on starting the X5 2004facelift 3.0D sport auto...I am a tad confused again, some people are saying 400amp plus draw can be expected and others say the 180amp range is more like it.....is my logic below flawed?

Been trying to do the maths on this based on what the starter is rated at for a 3.0d

It is 2.0kW so it can output up to this 2000watts correct?to achieve this: power 2000=(I)current X the (V)

2000watts=166.667 amps X 12 volts (assuming the battery is at that voltage)

So would you agree that in this case if the starter is drawing more than 166amps on start its a bad thing for the starter as such...this is a tricky one have not found anything online relating to the X5's 'standard' amp draw on starting the engine..