What spins in drive and stops in park? Loud noise

[Rob5]

Hi all,

I posted something similar before but got no answers so I'll try again with a bit of clarification.

At slower speeds and at stop with the footbrake on I'm getting an awful noise. With the window down I can hear a clattering sound from the front, like I'm dragging some tin cans down the road and then there is a random other noise that sounds like wet rubber spinning and slipping, almost a whirring rubber sound.

This completely stops when I place the gearbox in park and starts up again in drive and reverse.

Can anyone tell me what stops moving when in park so I can start to narrow it down? I was thinking prop shaft but this wouldnt move when stationary and brake on, or would it?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Rob

[X5Sport]

On mine it was a failing torque converter!  But your symptoms are slightly different.  Mine would not go forwards or backwards!

'Park' locks the transmission but the TC continues turning, and the prop shafts only turn when you are moving.

Any hesitation in any gear?

Richard

[Rob5]

Not that I can tell. It has slipped a little when moving off but only a couple of times. Its very noisy at slow speed and especially sat at the lights with the footbrake on. As I said though, as soon as I engage park the noise stops. Its going to have to be a trip to the garage I reckon tomorrow. Hope its not too expensive although given my past layouts, I have no doubt it will be!

This only happens when the engine is warm as well. From cold I can do 8 or 9 miles without a sound but as soon as its up to temp, the noise starts. I hope its not the torque converter. It was meant to have had a recon gearbox when I bought it, about 5000 miles ago!

[Horizon]

[quote="Rob5"]
Hi all,

I posted something similar before but got no answers so I'll try again with a bit of clarification.

At slower speeds and at stop with the footbrake on I'm getting an awful noise. With the window down I can hear a clattering sound from the front, like I'm dragging some tin cans down the road and then there is a random other noise that sounds like wet rubber spinning and slipping, almost a whirring rubber sound.

This completely stops when I place the gearbox in park and starts up again in drive and reverse.

Can anyone tell me what stops moving when in park so I can start to narrow it down? I was thinking prop shaft but this wouldnt move when stationary and brake on, or would it?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Rob
[/quote]

It would possibly help if you put a few details of which varient of X5 you have, pre and facelift cars have a different gearbox, preface lift can have the GM or ZF 5 speed, facelift cars use the ZF 6 speed.
Pre facelift boxes seem to have more problems, as a lot of adverts for them state recon box fitted.
Steamy rotter, a member on hear is very clued up on the GM box, as he's had his in bits several times. 

[Rob5]

It's a 51 plate pre facelift. I don't know which gearbox. I'll try look up some fault codes tomorrow if I gt chance and find out which gearbox it is.

[X5Sport]

GM 5-speed made with BMW ref A5S390R (GM ref 5L40E) all wheel drive version is fitted to yours.  ZF equivalent box arrived in early 2003.

Richard

[Steamyrotter]

I have had more than my fair share of gearbox/transmission noises...

That could be..
Torque convertor (internal turbine/stator bearings or lock up clutch springs)
Flex plate - connects TC to flywheel.  I have snapped 3 on mine in the past.
Gearbox input bearings or 1st stage clutch packs.  Oil pump or valve leak.

When in park the input shaft is free to turn at approx engine speed with no load and therefore no undue forces.  When in gearvthe box will load up the input shaft.  If you are stationary then you are in TC full torque mode and have max loading on the turbines & stator. This is when it will highlight anything loose or worn.

PS its 5L40E - 5 Speed, 40 is torque rating, E is electronic controlled.  These have been slightly bastarcised by BMW to allow a bit more Torque capacity to accompany the weight of the X5.

[Rob5]

Thank you all for your help. This is very useful info. Having looked up what you mentioned it looks like I'm in for a big bill.

Do you have any advice as to where to take it. Main dealer is out of the question I reckon but should I use my local indy, a specialist BMW indy or an auto transmission specialist? If anyone has any good recommendations in the Suffolk / Norfolk area it would be much appreciated.

Also if a new box is needed, is it wise to fit another reconditioned box or is this false economy.

[X5Sport]

That box is used by a number of car models so any competent auto transmission shop should be able to deal with it should the worst be needed.

Recon boxes are fine - I suspect you won't get a new one now - and should come with a 12-month warranty.

There's a specialist in North East Bedfordshire if that helps?  A1 Premier Transmissions.  They'll even collect your car and return it if needs be.

Richard

[Rob5]

Thanks. Took a video of the sound if that helps but I think you've got it covered so far.

http://youtu.be/xSGZfM1Vql4

[Steamyrotter]

Now that is bloody weird...!!

Does it sound the same in reverse??
Reason I ask is gearbox pressure in D at rest is about 55psi, but reverse is >140 psi
It is sounding like torque convertor to me.
But can not rule out gearbox..

You may need to get bottom covers off and listen closer..

[Rob5]

I tried it in reverse as suggested and it the noise still happens but not as badly, slightly quieter and not as frequent. In neutral, as park, there is no noise. Definitely the worse noise is stationary in drive, footbrake on. Hardly any noise at high speeds and no noise until the engine is warm.

I've found a specialist auto transmission shop in my area, suffolktransmissions.co.uk , if anyone has heard of them. Hopefully they should be able to help. I take it the toque converter is part of the gearbox? What actually does it do?

[X5Sport]

The torque converter is a fluid filled turbine (using the same oil as the gearbox is using) that transfers the power from the engine to the gearbox using hydraulic pressure.  If it fails completely then you have no drive in any gear.  The gearbox has to come off to get at it.

It basically sits where the clutch does in a manual transmission and being a fluid coupling allows the auto box to change gears.  They typically cost about £250 a time.

Richard

[Steamyrotter]

Unless you happen to have a spare that had only done 300 miles since last refurb..

Which let's face it not everyone would. ....
O:-)

[Rob5]

Just incase anyone stumbles across this thread in the future I thought I'd post an update.

It was indeed the torque converter which had failed, broken up and fallen into the gearbox, thus destroying that also. Reconditioned gearbox needed unfortunatly.

May I recommend Suffolk Automatic Transmittions to anyone in the area. They picked the car up and dropped it off, supplied a courtesy car and fitted a recon box for 1695 plus vat. A lot better than some other quotes I got. Very nice friendly guys down there too. Even managed to solve a few other issues I had at the same time. 12 month 12000 mile warranty with it as well so all being well should be ok for a while.