Testing and Diagnosing the E53 Webasto Thermo Top C/Z

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:10 pm

The fact it fires up as soon as you unlock the doors is very strange. I would say this needs correcting first as soon as you get the webo actually working you may find it's coming on using your battery/diesel when you don't want it too.

I'd personally attack this by purchasing a fault code reader (£30) and seeing what faults are on the car (plus it will always come in usefull). If there is some sort of rouge kbus command triggering the thing then hopefully one of the units the scanner talks to will be showing a fault.

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:13 pm

[quote="storminmike"]
[quote="jaynana"]
[quote="storminmike"]
incidentally, in the wifes car I heard coming from the back a TICK TOCK slow sound.....sounded like a slow grandfather clock speed pump noise. Can't recall hearing it in mine or hers before but then again I wasn't listening so closely

[/quote]

this is normal, its the aux fuel pump. this is usually a good indicator as it shows that the webo is moving beyond the initial ventilation stage..
[/quote]

apart from that was the wifes car and not mine

. Her webbo works mine does not (we both have X5s :-[)

Maybe that's the problem, is there a fuse for the pump, should the pump work always regardless of the temperature call? If this is the case then I can crawl around and listen for it
[/quote]
I don;'t think there's a fuse for the fuel pump. You can trigger it manually by applying 12v to pin 6 (I think, the thicker wire of the 3 going to that plug) on the webo connector, it should tick once everytime it is energised. But going on experience from here I'd say your prob will lie with the glow plug or webo pcb

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:12 pm

[quote="jevansio"]
The fact it fires up as soon as you unlock the doors is very strange. I would say this needs correcting first as soon as you get the webo actually working you may find it's coming on using your battery/diesel when you don't want it too.

I'd personally attack this by purchasing a fault code reader (£30) and seeing what faults are on the car (plus it will always come in usefull). If there is some sort of rouge kbus command triggering the thing then hopefully one of the units the scanner talks to will be showing a fault.
[/quote]

Would a kind of reader also double as a way of figuring out which of my parking sensors is playing up or are we talking about two different pieces of kit?

One other thing which might have nothing at all in common with this issue is that a couple of years ago I swapped the temperature control unit inside the car. The pixels were duff and a button was missing so I got another off the internet. What's the chance this is somehow programmed or mucking the system up seeing as it controls heating requests? Random I know and mayne a scanner would sort this out

[quote="jevansio"]
[I don;'t think there's a fuse for the fuel pump. You can trigger it manually by applying 12v to pin 6 (I think, the thicker wire of the 3 going to that plug) on the webo connector, it should tick once everytime it is energised. But going on experience from here I'd say your prob will lie with the glow plug or webo pcb
[/quote]

...are we talking about the oval plug that goes into the webasto?

Thanks for the help by the way...

Mike

philip600 · Post by **philip600** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:15 pm

I had problems with my heater a few Winters ago & it would attempt to start as soon as you unlocked the doors. You could hear the fan whirring & then it would make 'breathing' noises like Darth Vader !
It would also do this if I drove a couple of miles & stopped, the breathing noises would continue even after locking the car.
Took it to my indy & he diagnosed a faulty heater, this was replaced under my warranty.
Once it was replaced the heater only fires once the engine is started ( under the conditions explained earlier ) or when I click my maplins remote relay.
If your's is starting upon unlocking the doors it does sound faulty.
I took my old one apart & it was full of thick hard tar like substance, I suspect it may be due to short journeys not allowing the heater to get up to temp & burn off the carbon. Since replacing I use the remote start occationally just to keep it running well.
The only other thing mine has done is refuse to start, all it needed was to remove the fuse to over-ride the lock-out ( can't remember the proceedure ) & it was fine after that.
It definatley makes a difference with how long the car takes to warm, mine took a lot longer when the heater wasn't working.
Incidentaly I know two people who've had X5's & neither of their heaters where working but the had no idea, I suspect there are a lot out there where the heater has failed or gone to lock-out & the owners are none the wiser.
Hope you get it sorted.
Phil.

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:02 pm

[quote="philip600"]
I had problems with my heater a few Winters ago & it would attempt to start as soon as you unlocked the doors. You could hear the fan whirring & then it would make 'breathing' noises like Darth Vader !
It would also do this if I drove a couple of miles & stopped, the breathing noises would continue even after locking the car.
Took it to my indy & he diagnosed a faulty heater, this was replaced under my warranty.
Once it was replaced the heater only fires once the engine is started ( under the conditions explained earlier ) or when I click my maplins remote relay.
If your's is starting upon unlocking the doors it does sound faulty.
I took my old one apart & it was full of thick hard tar like substance, I suspect it may be due to short journeys not allowing the heater to get up to temp & burn off the carbon. Since replacing I use the remote start occationally just to keep it running well.
The only other thing mine has done is refuse to start, all it needed was to remove the fuse to over-ride the lock-out ( can't remember the proceedure ) & it was fine after that.
It definatley makes a difference with how long the car takes to warm, mine took a lot longer when the heater wasn't working.
Incidentaly I know two people who've had X5's & neither of their heaters where working but the had no idea, I suspect there are a lot out there where the heater has failed or gone to lock-out & the owners are none the wiser.
Hope you get it sorted.
Phil.
[/quote]

So I'm not alone in having or had a webasto that spins up on unlocking doors

Mine does it after any voltage provocation like you had. Even opening the bonnet makes it spin up for a timed session

Choices seem to be
Diagnostics...which may reveal....well dunno what. 0.8 ohms on the face of it seems to what other say is ok for the plug
PCB....who'd fix that and how much if it turn out dud....and that would mean the plumbing in bits (wouldn't it?)
Knick the wifes :-[
Punt on an ebay one....of which there are quite a few and some have different part numbers and prices????

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 pm

[quote="storminmike"]
Would a kind of reader also double as a way of figuring out which of my parking sensors is playing up or are we talking about two different pieces of kit?

One other thing which might have nothing at all in common with this issue is that a couple of years ago I swapped the temperature control unit inside the car. The pixels were duff and a button was missing so I got another off the internet. What's the chance this is somehow programmed or mucking the system up seeing as it controls heating requests? Random I know and mayne a scanner would sort this out

...are we talking about the oval plug that goes into the webasto?

Thanks for the help by the way...

Mike
[/quote]
Not sure on the parking sensors but I'd be suprised if it couldn't tell. Next time I plug my scanner 1.4 in I'll see what diagnostics the PDC unit provides. I think one of those scanners will prove invaluble time & time agin in tracking down issues, I buy one for every car I get.

I guess the new control unit could be related, but it doesn't explain why the heater isn't firing.

Based on phils experience of having the exact same wierd symptoms and needed a new heater unit I'd be inclined to follow the same route as him ie new heater (or reconditioned from ebay).

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:27 pm

[quote="jevansio"]
[quote="storminmike"]
Would a kind of reader also double as a way of figuring out which of my parking sensors is playing up or are we talking about two different pieces of kit?

One other thing which might have nothing at all in common with this issue is that a couple of years ago I swapped the temperature control unit inside the car. The pixels were duff and a button was missing so I got another off the internet. What's the chance this is somehow programmed or mucking the system up seeing as it controls heating requests? Random I know and mayne a scanner would sort this out

...are we talking about the oval plug that goes into the webasto?

Thanks for the help by the way...

Mike
[/quote]
Not sure on the parking sensors but I'd be suprised if it couldn't tell. Next time I plug my scanner 1.4 in I'll see what diagnostics the PDC unit provides. I think one of those scanners will prove invaluble time & time agin in tracking down issues, I buy one for every car I get.

I guess the new control unit could be related, but it doesn't explain why the heater isn't firing.

Based on phils experience of having the exact same wierd symptoms and needed a new heater unit I'd be inclined to follow the same route as him ie new heater (or reconditioned from ebay).
[/quote]

I'm begining to think that too as I can't afford it to be off the road with pipes left loose.

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:28 pm

The pcb can be removed without having the plumbing affected, but you're stuck with that german guy that Jay used to fix it. You could start swaping bits from the wifes, but I guess you could end up with 2 broke units lol, I think before I did that I'd pull the broken one off the car and check how much crap is inside the burner

jaynana · Post by **jaynana** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:32 pm

[quote="storminmike"]
Knick the wifes :-[
[/quote]

there u go mate, solutions ^-^ :-X

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:43 pm

[quote="jevansio"]
The pcb can be removed without having the plumbing affected, but you're stuck with that german guy that Jay used to fix it. You could start swaping bits from the wifes, but I guess you could end up with 2 broke units lol, I think before I did that I'd pull the broken one off the car and check how much crap is inside the burner
[/quote]

A bit like batteries....inconvenient needing one when you most need one. Might be easier (quicker) but not cheaper to get another one :'(

I haven't got the time to play too much at the moment...was perhaps asking too much for an unplug re-boot miracle. My only other worry is if it's not the Web but another issue elsewhere...like the pump. Bar a quick (not) swap of the wifes it would be a punt of faith on another one

[quote="jaynana"]
[quote="storminmike"]
Knick the wifes :-[
[/quote]

there u go mate, solutions ^-^ :-X
[/quote]

I think she'd notice...or perhaps not....she said "what's wrong with the car...is the exhaust leaking" on noticing a small puff of smoke near the door

)

maybe I could fix that for her

)

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:21 pm

Just been out and done the reset , worked blowing cold air for 180 sec so I'm thinking of changing the glow plug that my good friend Alan sorted

would I need this gasket kit ???
https://sales.butlertechnik.com/vehicle ... -top-c-e-z

X5 ALN · Post by **X5 ALN** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:56 pm

I wouldn't bother just now, because if the glow plug I gave you is a dud, and you end up ordering one - you will get a gasket set with it anyway.

If the glow plug works, you can always order the gasket set after - doesn't take long to fit.

You only need 2 of the 3 gaskets. One of the paper ones and one rubber one. The paper one is the one that is likely to split.

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:11 pm

Thanks I've lost the eBay link ! Is this the same ?? 251207596186

X5 ALN · Post by **X5 ALN** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:16 pm

[quote="wilkoturbo"]
Thanks I've lost the eBay link ! Is this the same ?? 251207596186
[/quote]

Here's the spare parts list (make sure and read the BMW section as it has Audi and Merc also)

Forgot to check - my glow plug is for 04 onwards, not sure how old your motor is

http://www.airconcoltd.com/partman/Ther ... 70G[1].pdf

Copy and paste the link - the bracket round the 1 is f*ing the link

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Hey many thanks 56 would that make a difference ??

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