XSeries-forum

[quote="X5Sport"]
Use more fuel than your Audi?  That's a good one... ) ) )

You'll be joining the monster raving green loony party next!  The anti-SUV gang lost their arguments a long time ago, not that they were properly valid anyway.  A lot of 'normal cars' wear out far faster than many BMWs - hence their second hand value falling off a cliff - unlike many SUVs.  Given your propensity for changing cars so frequently, reliability/age issues rarely affect you.  Yes you had a bad experience with your E70 (as I did with the my E53) but my E71 is much better.

The RRS hardly has green credentials either.  Until very recently they were amongst the worst of the engines in both diesel and petrols.  Many have had very poor experiences with RR and as I've said here before, I ran a fleet of them for the Government.  We didn't buy them by choice as there were better ones out there but we had to 'buy British'.  That fleet suffered constant failures of gearboxes and transfer cases, flywheel failures, electrical faults, premature clutch issues, overheating and even a seized engine due to a failed coolant temp sensor not warning the driver there was a problem, interiors falling apart and rust.  Hardly a recommendation for buying them.  Probably why the major fleet operators with SUVs such as the Police now run BMW X5s instead.  Part of the reason is the higher second hand value than they get from RR.

You can't see a need, but many people can as if they didn't there would be no market at all.

Right.....off to take my pills......and all above is IMHO of course.
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I was comparing the 535 economy to the X5 clearly not the rs4. That ishow the post started !

I got same residual on my 535 as I did my X5

I said I would only have a FFRR (not a sport) if I won the lottery, at which point I wouldn't care about reliability as much because if he it broke down if just dump it at the dealer and use my panamera turbo S

When I Drove the new x5 last week he told me that they had quite a few failures on the rear suspension of the police e61 which was becoming a bit nasty and heated. They saw the video of one failure at 137mph (not dangerously luckily). So I don't buy in to the fact that BMW are necessarily more reliable than RR hence police force by them. Yes they do have some x5s but many more e61s and now F31s down here

So give me 3 good reasons why an x5 is better than a 5 series wagon

[quote="Wakey"]
Thanks for the replies.

I can't seem to see a 535d in the new shape as an estate though?

Trust me I've spent endless nights wondering if I could get away with a b7 rs4 avant, rs6, c63, and unknowingly the wife has said I can have one, firstly through cunning deception on my part, secondly not knowing what AMG or RS stands for, and lastly getting her to pity me as she thinks I'm sacrificing a performance car because they have a large estate boot.

But Also I'm at that age where I really can't be bothered about trying to move fast on heavily contested roads.  If I had a car like that it would be all about top trumps performance chat at the pub. A persuit I can no longer partake in due to my growing family.

I need a comfy slipper that still looks nice and....and, "cool", but doesn't relegate me to shopping for my under pants at M&S.

Fuel consumption I'm not bothered about, but depreciation I am interested in.  The fact people say these cars hold their value really helps.

Thanks again for your replies.
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Yes the 535d is available as an estate or if you need 4 wheel drive then get a new 330d xdrive. As you say in the real world it will be as quick as any of mine on the road.

I sold my x5 for £24k after 4.5 years and 60k miles having bought it for £55k new so yes residuals are good but it was one of the first E70s and despite what people say the f15 will affect values of the e70

Oh yeah they are not like comfy slippers either

They are set up with drivers in mind and therefore the ride is hard but it does handle well

The geo is also set up for handling which means you end up throwing away part worn tyres because it destroys the inner ages which is dangerous for this that don't check their tyres or just take a cursory glance.

I agree ref the flat floor in the back, the lack of transmission tunnel transforms the car from a passenger perspective.  If I go back to a car it will be a C63 or probably more likely an E63 wagon.  I'm more concerned at the cost of a set of replacement discs/pads than I am fuel, tax or tyres.  I would begrudge almost £500 road tax!

I've just got my tax renewal and I think it is £465 which is approx £200 more than my x5 which is therefore less than £20/mth more making it irrelevant really

Without wanting to cause offence the fact you have a lotus, Porsche and Audi makes the affordability argument slightly irrelevant with you?

Noted on the comfy slipper comment though.

Thanks.

[quote="Wakey"]
Without wanting to cause offence the fact you have a lotus, Porsche and Audi makes the affordability argument slightly irrelevant with you?

Noted on the comfy slipper comment though.

Thanks.
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying but you a said fuel economy was not important !

As far as three good reasons why an X5 over a 5 series, I will give you my one ( the 5 series is too low and while I can get in OK getting out with by back is a real issue.

If there was one ideal car we would all drive that, 535dboy needs to realise there is more than his view only.

[quote="touring"]
As far as three good reasons why an X5 over a 5 series, I will give you my one ( the 5 series is too low and while I can get in OK getting out with by back is a real issue.

If there was one ideal car we would all drive that, 535dboy needs to realise there is more than his view only.
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Whilst I appreciate how nasty a bad back is because my wife has been known to suffer too, she will just take the Audi instead of her Porsche.

There doesn't need to be a one car suits all, my point is about such a large car

90% of the time I drove the x5 on its own and therefore it was pointless being so big

Oh and btw, yes there is only one opinion that is right and that is mine as those on this forum and it's predecessor well know. There is no need to have anything other than the 3 I own - 1 for the track one for the sun and one for everything else that no BMW will touch down a dark wet small road.

I have owned both a X5 4.8iS & 520d Touring & engines aside I prefered the way the 5 series drove it had sweeter steering felt far more stable when cornering & under braking as it was a fair bit lighter so I do agree with what 535dboy is saying.

Don't get me wrong I loved my X5 too & haven't owned another car thats given me the same feel good factor as that did but its hard to put my finger on why, I did like the high driving position for the view of the road & I also adored the way the engine sounded.

As a drivers tool I would have thought most would say the 5 series tourer trumps the X5 but if my numbers ever come up I would have another X5 in a heartbeat.

That's the point that gets on my goat, people have kids and think they must have a big SUV to protect their precious child

A 5 will brake quicker and safer, swerve to avoid and be generally safer in the first place

[quote="535dboy"]
That's the point that gets on my goat, people have kids and think they must have a big SUV to protect their precious child

A 5 will brake quicker and safer, swerve to avoid and be generally safer in the first place
[/quote]

In many cases a larger vehicle will be better protection for various reasons.  Stronger build, effort required to roll them, inertia, panel thickness from skin to door card, and just sheer mass (BMW had to redesign the rollover test for the X6 because for the standard EU test it just refused to roll).  I accept that it is not always the case that they are harder to roll though.  Hampshire Police rolled their first Range Rover on a very early shift and the passengers were seriously injured or possibly killed.

Having seen some of the dashcam footage on YouTube, there is little doubt that the upper end of the market SUV (Range Rover/Merc/BMW etc types do appear to withstand side on collisions far better simply be being a few inches higher.  BUT newer car designs with the added passenger cell safety cages that must now be built in are much safer than they ever were say 15 years ago.  I'm still concerned about some of the 'taller' SUV types as the centre of gravity may be a little high - one reason the older generation 'taxi' type Rangie leaned on corners.

Lower end of the market 'SUV lookalikes' are not as good because the don't have the same strength or mass as their bigger brethren and being generally lighter are not as good.  The same exists in the car market.  A premium saloon or estate will generally provide better protection than a budget model and that is part of reason for the extra cost.

Low and wide is always better than tall and thin (in cars anyway  )

Richard

[quote="535dboy"]
Yes the 535d is available as an estate or if you need 4 wheel drive then get a new 330d xdrive. As you say in the real world it will be as quick as any of mine on the road.

I sold my x5 for £24k after 4.5 years and 60k miles having bought it for £55k new so yes residuals are good but it was one of the first E70s and despite what people say the f15 will affect values of the e70
[/quote]

I've just given back a courtesy 330d xDrive, great car, fast, capable and confidence inspiring.  But I just sold a 3 series because sitting a 10 year old, a 7 year old and a 1 year old (in a huge ISOFIX car seat) across the back seat is tight and that's before I start trying to load luggage, buggies etc.  In short it's too small and so won't suit everyone's needs.

Residuals weren't in question, but as you've brought them up nobody has a crystal ball.  Historically the X5 has held its value very well and I believe Facelift cars will remain somewhat unaffected until the F15 equivalent can be readily purchased used which is a little way off.

[quote="Lee4.8is"]
I have owned both a X5 4.8iS & 520d Touring & engines aside I prefered the way the 5 series drove it had sweeter steering felt far more stable when cornering & under braking as it was a fair bit lighter so I do agree with what 535dboy is saying.
[/quote]

I don't think there has ever been any doubt that a 5 series will run rings around an X5 In the handling stakes.  A heavy SUV will always loose out to a car in these kinds of tests, what BMW have done is look at how often these cars are used for off road use and designed a vehicle that minimises the compromise on road and they have done a bloody good job.  I couldn't drive a RRS for this reason alone, I caveat that statement in I haven't driven the newest model but the previous one hand plenty of body roll.

[quote="535dboy"]
I've just got my tax renewal and I think it is £465 which is approx £200 more than my x5 which is therefore less than £20/mth more making it irrelevant really
[/quote]

I merely said that I begrudge paying road tax.  Like you I am the owner of more than one vehicle, I don't even want to think how much I am paying in road tax annually.  In short too much, especially when you consider  so e of the less practical modes of transport cover just 400 miles annually.

[quote="535dboy"]
That's the point that gets on my goat, people have kids and think they must have a big SUV to protect their precious child
[/quote]

Wrong!  I have a Caterham and take my girls aged 7 and 10 out in that with me, I like many others did not buy an SUV because they are naive enough to believe it's essential to protect them in the event of an accident.  That said, if I was given a choice I'd hazard a guess it is statistically safer on the basis there is a higher percentage chance it will be bigger and heavier than the other object.

I brought an SUV because it's the right tool for the job, it's a compromise at times.  But I couldn't bear the thought of the alternative which was an underpowered people carrier.

Put bluntly if you have such a strong dislike for the SUV or the X5 in particular why do you continue to contribute on this forum?  We have heard your opinion, but one size does not fit all.  Do you have 3 x kids?  Do you regularly have 4 large suitcases and a a buggy in huge rear or your Audi?  Do you ever tow?  People are looking for a balanced opinion with real life experiences.  Not that a 535d is the answer to everyone's problem, because it really isn't.

So without looking up dimensions (because I can't be arsed) you are saying that an X5 is wider inside than a 5 series and therefore the same can't be done

You are also suggesting that every family with three kids (despite their personal wealth) must own an X5 or they can't go out together?

No values will fall as people upgrade to the new model and the market becomes flooded with used e70s, it is called supply and demand.

Lee4.8iS was not just referring to the handling he was picking up on my point about dynamics. You or wife are driving down a road and a deer comes out in front of you. You swerve and loose control because of the dynamics and centre of gravity in the X5. You stand a better chance of retaining control in a 5. And because you have a 2.5t car your family may be marginally better off than in a 1.8t 5 series but unfortunately the peasant family that have had to squeeze in to a ford focus will probably die in the impact.

Road tax is a cost of running a car and over the course of a year it is hardly a massive cost compared to depreciation, fuel, tyres, servicing and finance costs (if that is what you have to do)

I am on this forum because I have been for years, even before I owned the X and have a number of friends on here. As many will know on here I have been fortunate to drive a lot of very tasty cars and supercars and have driven on some of the best roads and race circuits in the world. Manufacturers tend to just chuck cars at me because they know I am honest and if it is a good car I will promote them to my clients who will buy them hence right not the new RRS is the better car and one of my partners is buyin that instead of an X5. Just yesterday I was a special guest with Audi at Brighton and Hove Albions football stadium and was chucked the keys for unaccompanied drives of the the TTRS (never driven one) and the new RS6 (which I don't like at all but the old man may get one). I therefore bring real life experienced to the table as opposed to just being a keyboard warrior.

My equal passion is people that buy Porsches for the wrong reason ie the badge and not the engineering. I feel a cock driving the wife's car because people look at you. They do however produce remarkable driving cars which nobody else in the market can compete with

I like caterhams and have been lucky enough to drive a recent R500 with sequential shift but for me it is too compromised to travel any long distance in and I can't be arsed to trailer it everywhere as part of the fun for getting where we need to is the road trip in convoy.

Hth

[quote="535dboy"]
So without looking up dimensions (because I can't be arsed) you are saying that an X5 is wider inside than a 5 series and therefore the same can't be done

[quote="535dboy"]
Yes - it's wider with a flat floor and marginally more space in the way of leg room.  Equally I agree 5 series would be a damn site more comfortable and spacious than my previous 3 series but not quite that of the X5.
[/quote]

You are also suggesting that every family with three kids (despite their personal wealth) must own an X5 or they can't go out together?

[quote="535dboy"]
No - just that personally speaking I didn't want to drive a Picasso, S-Max or Galaxy.  Thats not to say they aren't good cars either, the Galaxy is fantastic I am regularly driven in one to airport for work.
[/quote]

No values will fall as people upgrade to the new model and the market becomes flooded with used e70s, it is called supply and demand.

[quote="535dboy"]
I believe there is 12 months before we'll see this knock on effect.  But would agree with your supply and demand statement
[/quote]

Lee4.8iS was not just referring to the handling he was picking up on my point about dynamics. You or wife are driving down a road and a deer comes out in front of you. You swerve and loose control because of the dynamics and centre of gravity in the X5. You stand a better chance of retaining control in a 5. And because you have a 2.5t car your family may be marginally better off than in a 1.8t 5 series but unfortunately the peasant family that have had to squeeze in to a ford focus will probably die in the impact.

[quote="535dboy"]
If asked if I would like to swerve to avoid a deer at 50 mph in a SUV or car, then it would obviously be a car.  I think in a test environment we would be genuinely surprised at the results and find very little difference.  But yes I'd be more confident of safely pulling off such a manoeuvre in the lighter more agile car but equally if I was going to hit a deer I'd rather do it in an SUV!!!  (or a truck)
[/quote]

Road tax is a cost of running a car and over the course of a year it is hardly a massive cost compared to depreciation, fuel, tyres, servicing and finance costs (if that is what you have to do)

[quote="535dboy"]
In the grand scheme of things yes, but it's an annual cost and one I begrudge as I do not believe the system is fair.  It's still a couple of tanks of fuel, more than half my insurance premium for the X5 and since I purchase all of my vehicles outright I could comment on finance costs.
[/quote]

I am on this forum because I have been for years, even before I owned the X and have a number of friends on here. As many will know on here I have been fortunate to drive a lot of very tasty cars and supercars and have driven on some of the best roads and race circuits in the world. Manufacturers tend to just chuck cars at me because they know I am honest and if it is a good car I will promote them to my clients who will buy them hence right not the new RRS is the better car and one of my partners is buyin that instead of an X5. Just yesterday I was a special guest with Audi at Brighton and Hove Albions football stadium and was chucked the keys for unaccompanied drives of the the TTRS (never driven one) and the new RS6 (which I don't like at all but the old man may get one). I therefore bring real life experienced to the table as opposed to just being a keyboard warrior.

[quote="535dboy"]
Fantastic, so do you hand the car back to the manufacturers and suggest they make it more like a 535d?  I'm sure you don't, but in the limited time I've spend on the forum it seems to be your default answer 99% of the time.  If you've so much experience I'd expect a more balanced opinion, one that considers scenarios different to your own.  If your balanced opinion is that the 535d is the best real world daily car then fine - so why don't you have one anymore?
[/quote]

My equal passion is people that buy Porsches for the wrong reason ie the badge and not the engineering. I feel a cock driving the wife's car because people look at you. They do however produce remarkable driving cars which nobody else in the market can compete with

[quote="535dboy"]
I couldn't agree with you more, I despise people who say the Boxster isn't a real Porsche because it's simply fantastic!  Usually such statements come from people who have never driven one, or drove some ancient model in 1998!  Asked if I prefer the 911, I do...  But they are more expensive and probably represent less value than the Boxster or Cayman
[/quote]

I like caterhams and have been lucky enough to drive a recent R500 with sequential shift but for me it is too compromised to travel any long distance in and I can't be arsed to trailer it everywhere as part of the fun for getting where we need to is the road trip in convoy.

[quote="535dboy"]
I agree, I wouldn't want to do more than 100-150 miles in a day, not ever!  Caterham's were my fathers passion and on his death I took his vehicle on, so it has some sentimental value.  But because of all the reasons you mention above my wife can't stand the damn thing and as such I am considering selling it due to lack of use having such a young family.  At about 400-800 miles annually it's expensive per mile if you add up servicing, tax, insurance
[/quote]

Hth
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