Intermittent not cranking bmw x5

[GermanWhip]

Hi all, this issue is driving me insane  :xmaskiss: O:-) :'(

Car: 54 plate Bmw x5 3.0d Sport facelift auto

Problem.. SOMETIMES (no pattern whatsoever) it won't crank. You get in the car as normal, turn the key as normal and all the radio, dash lights come on as normal.. but it won't crank.. it does NOTHING, no click, no sound or anything. Sometimes it will go a week and not do it, other times it will do it all day.

I've had a new battery and starter motor, I've tried the other key. I've tried starting in neutral etc etc

Sometimes you can leave it 2 minutes and come back and it will fire up like nothing happened. Other times it will start first time, I'll drive for a while.. pop in a shop.. come out and it won't flipping start again.

I've had it looked at and apparently no fault can be found. If it decides not to crank, I'll leave it a few minutes and come back and it might work.. failing that you can always leave the ignition on and use a wire on the back of the starter and it will crank.

The car is now useless, I gave it to the girl as I got sick of all the problems. But she can't use it with this problem as we have no idea when it will decide not to crank.

After much reading, is the ignition switch possible? it's the intermittent of it that makes it so hard to figure out.

[Smeeagain]

if you use the wire does it crank over first time every time? If so its the ignition switch (or whatever else you are bypassing)

[Smeeagain]

[quote="GermanWhip"]
Hi all, this issue is driving me insane  :xmaskiss: O:-) :'(

Car: 54 plate Bmw x5 3.0d Sport facelift auto

Problem.. SOMETIMES (no pattern whatsoever) it won't crank. You get in the car as normal, turn the key as normal and all the radio, dash lights come on as normal.. but it won't crank.. it does NOTHING, no click, no sound or anything. Sometimes it will go a week and not do it, other times it will do it all day.

I've had a new battery and starter motor, I've tried the other key. I've tried starting in neutral etc etc

Sometimes you can leave it 2 minutes and come back and it will fire up like nothing happened. Other times it will start first time, I'll drive for a while.. pop in a shop.. come out and it won't flipping start again.

I've had it looked at and apparently no fault can be found. If it decides not to crank, I'll leave it a few minutes and come back and it might work.. failing that you can always leave the ignition on and use a wire on the back of the starter and it will crank.

The car is now useless, I gave it to the girl as I got sick of all the problems. But she can't use it with this problem as we have no idea when it will decide not to crank.

After much reading, is the ignition switch possible? it's the intermittent of it that makes it so hard to figure out.
[/quote]

You posted about this before and the response was to search for posts on ignition switch which you said you were going to do. Did you?

[GermanWhip]

[quote="Smeeagain"]
if you use the wire does it crank over first time every time? If so its the ignition switch (or whatever else you are bypassing)
[/quote]

100% first time every time without fail. What else would be bypassed?

[GermanWhip]

You posted about this before and the response was to search for posts on ignition switch which you said you were going to do. Did you?

Yes, I even had the ignition switch tested but because the problem is so intermittent this test doesn't really help as at the time it was starting fine. I've read lots about it but from what I can gather if it was the ignition switch I would have other issues, and it wouldn't be so intermittent ?

[rhinoman]

Ours did something similar, it was the small blue injector relay under the bonnet near the ecu. A few quid from BMW to fix. A fault reader gave us a clue.

[GermanWhip]

[quote="rhinoman"]
Ours did something similar, it was the small blue injector relay under the bonnet near the ecu. A few quid from BMW to fix. A fault reader gave us a clue.
[/quote]

Oh, interesting. Did it come up with a fault beep or did you only find out when plugging it in

[rhinoman]

It had a fuel injection message on the display and sometimes trans fail. Plugging it in narrowed it a little more (cant remeber exactly what it displayed) and Googling the fault code pointed us to the relay.

There were two "blue" (tech speak) relays adjacent to the ecu under the bonnet and swapping them left to right/ right to left meant it started or stopped depending on the orientation. As they were under £10 each I replaced both to be sure. I think it may have been something to do with the fuel pump, pre start and running seems to ring a bell.

[GermanWhip]

*UPDATE*

It is NOT the ignition switch. It's been tested again both when the car starts and when it doesn't and it's chucking out volts either way.

Also, I've noticed something. When the car is starting fine from the key, with the engine off.. if you move the gear selector up and down it makes click noise for each selection. Now, when the car is NOT starting off the key.. this noise does not happen! (everything else is the same, the position light changes on the dash etc etc) but there is no noise.

Now, as I said before this fault only happened AFTER having my auto box service due to a slight leak, they changed the oil etc. After reading, there is something on the box where they would have been working which can cause this fault. That's as far as I've got

Any ideas on this part? how to test it? etc ...

Huge thanks

[X5Sport]

If the car is not correctly reading the lever in a non-drive gear (P or N) then that would inhibit the starter.  But the different gear should show on the dash too and from what you describe that does not match what you see.

Might be worth getting the gear lever position sensor looked at?

Richard

[GermanWhip]

[quote="X5Sport"]
If the car is not correctly reading the lever in a non-drive gear (P or N) then that would inhibit the starter.  But the different gear should show on the dash too and from what you describe that does not match what you see.

Might be worth getting the gear lever position sensor looked at?

Richard
[/quote]

The only difference from the car starting or not starting is the "tick" noise when you move the selector with the engine not running. Apart from that everything is the same. No tick noise = no start.

The garage are taking it back to have a look next week as this problem has only occurred after their work..

[GermanWhip]

Update from garage, they need more time but he said something about immobilizer and starter inhibitor??

History on this..

The car NEVER did this before, ever. I had a full service at the garage, still was fine. This only happened since they changed the transmission oil, they seem fair at the garage and said he wouldn't charge for looking into it as the fault only happened after they worked on it.. hope he sticks to that as the car is becoming a money pit.

[amacman]

There are similar stories on some bmw forums . Usual fix is to re-syncronise dde (ecu) and ews ( immobiliser )with the key using coding software .Or something to that effect .

[GermanWhip]

[quote="amacman"]
There are similar stories on some bmw forums . Usual fix is to re-syncronise dde (ecu) and ews ( immobiliser )with the key using coding software .Or something to that effect .
[/quote]

Do you have a link so I can read them? the fact it only started happening after the transmission fluid change leads me to think it must be something to do with that, as there is switches in that area.

It's the most annoying problem in the world as you never know when it won't start, there really is no pattern at all. So many problems with this x5, I was told it's a lemon? guess my other 2 bmw's were too, everything failing at low miles, clutch, power steering pumps etc etc at like 60k miles. Never again

[Steamyrotter]

My thoughts reflect Richards. 

Gearbox selection sensor being the most probable.  Especially as you have had the box opened.
These are usually inside the box and if not fully detecting P or N it will not crank.
They are not secured that firmly in the box so even a little play can cause issues.

On the Prefacelift there is an option in the EGS to disable this check....
Not tried it as it doesn't seem right, but apparently can be done.
Not sure about the Facelift & ZF box though..

You could find the P/N detection core and temporarily link it out to confirm this, and shouldn't cause too many problems as long as you remember it is done.  ie Ensure you are in P or N, or at least have your foot planted firmly on the brake prior to starting..

Cant help on the actual core as all i have is the info on the GM version.
Anyone know what EGS Module is used in the facelift??

You could google for the wiring diagram, but try searching for the box diagram rather than the car as it may be easier to get hold of.....

I would have thought it unlikely that the link between the DDE & EWS is the culprit as it would cause more issues than i am gathering from your post.
That said it could be a factor and at least worth a try...