Swirl flaps

[X5Sport]

OK - here's the promised update. Have talked to PCS who found nothing on swirl flaps against my chassis number. I then removed the top cover of the engine to have a look (only takes a couple of mins) and there is no sign anywhere of a mechanism or control system, or flap units. I used a mirror to look under the manifold and there is no sign of said evil flaps.

BUT, this does not apprarently confirm whether or not I do or don't have them because the engine diagrams for mine and my wife'as E46 are the same. Her car isn't here until much later tonight and getting the cover off may not be as easy as the X's given how packed the engine bay of an E46 330Cd is compared with an E53. The manifold also costs about £400 which seems a lot for just a piece of plastic!! None of the local dealers, nor BMW GB, nor the indy can confirm what the true status on swirl flaps for E53's is - which is incredibly unhelpful.

The car is going in as soon as we get a slot with the Indy and they will have a look themselves. They've quoted £250 all in to do the job which is not cheap, but cheaper than BMW who wouldn't do it of course, and way cheaper than a new engine!! I honestly cannot see anything on mine. I can see where the gaskets tags stick out - as shown on pictures 05, 06, 07, 08 here: http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/swirl_flaps.pdf
Note that these pictures do not match what the view under my bonnt is. Edited - My Oil filler cap is to the RHS of the engine near the dipstick - no it isn't, that'll be the PAS Reservoir!!

But on mine there is no sign of the mounts for the control rod, the flap units or anything else. The manifold is virgin in that area - unless I have been looking in completely the wrong place, but I don't think I have.

It can't (or shouldn't) be this difficult to find out, but when even the manufacturer isn't certain, what chance have we got?

EDIT @ 15:44 Have had a call back from PMW who think there is a very good chance (approx 70%) the X5 does not have swirl flaps. Some do though, and the ONLY way to be certain is take the manifold off!! Our E46 330Cd definitely will have them though.

[pvr]

Interesting, my oil filler is on the LEFT hand side even though my car is the same age as yours? (July 2005).

[X5Sport]

[quote=""pvr""]Interesting, my oil filler is on the LEFT hand side even though my car is the same age as yours? (July 2005).[/quote]

Er - well spotted, that'll be the PAS reservoir!! Edited.

[pvr]

Hahahaha

[bazzyboy]

sorry for the slow reply just in from work
i have done four x5 3.0d facelift turbo replacements (3 due to breather not been changed & 1 just wear 110k) & have never seen swirlflaps on any of them if u remove the cover ur manifold will be smooth where as on say a 530d 05 plate the manifold will have linkages on top of it which operates the flaps
hope this helps
but i would not worry about flaps to much
change ur breather every 20k if short journeys & every 30k if long trips mainly its only £19+vat if u have the modded breather which came out in 2005 if u dont u
can change to the new design for £40+vat

part no--modded Breather assembly----- 11127799225 --£40+vat

partno--filter assembly for breather------ 11127799366---£19+vat

hope this helps

[AW8]

Thanks very much,

On multiple previous occasions on the old board I prior advised diesel owners to change the breather. Not due to my intricate technical knowledge but due to me reading it is adviseable to do so on more than one occasion.

Perhaps, (if able), be so kind as to start another thread explaining the role of the breather, why it fails & damage likely if neglected. It would also be good if you could explain the role of assembly & filter, clarify if modified filter also requires such regular changes & indicate if car likely to run better or have improved mpg if tired items changed.

[pvr]

Yes - that would be great if that could be explained.

[x555]

[quote=""bazzyboy""]sorry for the slow reply just in from work
i have done four x5 3.0d facelift turbo replacements (3 due to breather not been changed & 1 just wear 110k) & have never seen swirlflaps on any of them if u remove the cover ur manifold will be smooth where as on say a 530d 05 plate the manifold will have linkages on top of it which operates the flaps
hope this helps
but i would not worry about flaps to much
change ur breather every 20k if short journeys & every 30k if long trips mainly its only £19+vat if u have the modded breather which came out in 2005 if u dont u
can change to the new design for £40+vat

part no--modded Breather assembly----- 11127799225 --£40+vat

partno--filter assembly for breather------ 11127799366---£19+vat

hope this helps[/quote]

bazzyboy.... can you tell just by removing the cover as i did then or have you taken off the manifold itself?? sorry to repeat questions etc mate but i checked mine ages ago after the original thread was started by AW8 by doing this and couldn't see any actuating rod on top so presumed that i didn't have flaps....ooo err there's a joke in this thread somewhere
However with this being dragged up again and studying those pics on the link provided by me and AW8 in pictures 7 and 8 it shows the actuator rod and swirl flaps but the manifold is inverted which would make these items be on the inside of the manifold not the outside!!!!
Or am i being a complete numpty here please give me your views on this fella as you seem to know a lot more about enginges than me
This would help put my mind at rest on this subject as major bill right now would put the clappers on the x for me .....that and it will stop me from tearing into the engine bay on the weekend and pulling off the manifold as that is next on the agenda
Man all this talk about flaps is making me ..................damn you pvr for starting this thread up again

[Sanj]

Right! I'm taking the manifold cover off at the wekend and checking myself - promise pics...

That breather bazyboy I recall you mentioned on the old thread. Please, please, please can you do a possible 'how to' on that one. I was supposed to get that done around the time the old site went down and I went into mourning.....

Wanna do this one myself, too.

[X5Sport]

Right, I have just had a look at the July 2005 E46 330Cd M Sport Convertible we have with the M57TU engine, by removing the fancy BMW cover and then using a mirror and bright torch looked up towards the underside of the intake manifold from just in front of the PAS reservoir. The swirl flap actuator rod and flap units are clearly visible where the branches of the manifold turn downwards.

On my December 2004 built, MY2005 E53 3.0d Sport Auto the same actions show absolutely nothing under the manifold branches where they turn downwards. By comparing one against the other I think there is no doubt that the E46 has these devices and the E53 does not. That tally's with what PMW told me, and what is being said here. It seems that a quick 10min check will pretty much tell you whether you do or don't have the dreaded flaps.

[Darnicmax]

[quote=""X5Sport""]Right, I have just had a look at the July 2005 E46 330Cd M Sport Convertible we have with the M57TU engine, by removing the fancy BMW cover and then using a mirror and bright torch looked up towards the underside of the intake manifold from just in front of the PAS reservoir. The swirl flap actuator rod and flap units are clearly visible where the branches of the manifold turn downwards.

On my December 2004 built, MY2005 E53 3.0d Sport Auto the same actions show absolutely nothing under the manifold branches where they turn downwards. By comparing one against the other I think there is no doubt that the E46 has these devices and the E53 does not. That tally's with what PMW told me, and what is being said here. It seems that a quick 10min check will pretty much tell you whether you do or don't have the dreaded flaps.[/quote]

Thanks for the update X5Sport - and to everyone who has contributed to this fascinating thread.

I agree - a quick 10 minute check will confirm if the killer flaps are installed or not. I have the M57TU engine fitted to my E53d Sport - so will be interesting to see if the flaps are there when I check this weekend. If they are, raises an interesting question in so much there would appear to be differing versions of the same model (M57TU) engine fitted to different BMW models.

I can see where all this is heading...the next owners meet should be branded a 'Flap Inspection' Day... ..where a census is peformed on how many X5s with M57TU engines have flaps....

Interesting enough, I don't think I have yet read a single confirmation of a X5 E53 fitted with M57TU having swirl flaps....just hope mine isn't the first when I look.

[x555]

Nice one X5Sport thorough investigation there my friend that makes me more assured that my original investigation way back was as i thought...no flaps..........So why is me still thinking about taking off the manifold .....proberbly because i haven't done anything with the x for a while other than wash it.........i'm a man i need to fiddle and tinker

[x555]

[quote=""Sanj""]Right! I'm taking the manifold cover off at the wekend and checking myself - promise pics...[/quote]

are you sure now fella you may get them frail old hands dirty .....have you got Jason coming around on standby

[Chompers]

Interesting thread indeed guys, loads of talk on many boards about these swirl flaps but its does sound like there is nothing to worry about for e53 owners. However this go me thinking about my 20d engine and also if e70's have them in both 30d and 35d guise. As mine is still in warranty I'm not bothered but wonder about the e70's as the early ones will now be out of warranty.

[x555]

I was just having a read of a similar thread over the pond and a member Shaunos has posted a valid point (one that i hadn't noticed/checked on real oem )
When you select an x5 3.0d for your vehicle and then look up the manifold section it only mentions intake manifold like here ....
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=40

but if you select an e46 330d (same engine) it shows intake manifold with flap controll like here ....
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=40

one is vacuum controlled and the other isn't and also if you try selecting intake manifold vacuum controlled on the e53 it says no parts found matching your car like this.. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=40

Just a little more evidence to support the 'no flaps' theory