what is week that you havent answered my question ? if at 80 mph you got a blow out on the auto bahn which car would stop safely the car with or without runflats ?
Yes the caravan has breaks but at 2 ton it still has an impact on the cars breaking system & as only 3 wheels will have 100 percent grip the impact will be greater !
As for your comment on the 44 ton truck
A . They have rather more tyres than a car .
B . They are restricted to 56 mph .
C . They have 1" thick side walls that have extra banding a bit like run flats .
D . They usually are wider !
Obviously BMW have worked closely with Bridgestone , Goodyear , Michelin , Continental etc investing multi millions on them , like their cars they are forward thinking .
I believe that the under funded road network ( pot holes etc ) are the main reason for wheels cracking otherwise they would have been taken out of production a long time ago .
The guy with the runflats on the original wheels needs to have them checked as the wheels designed for runflats have larger inner shoulders that stop the tyre comming off the rims once deflated so that is a major concern !
Last item about expence of tyres & weather you can afford them I have several mates with X5/6 s & they all complain about tyre costs so it is obviously a big issue , one of them has an 18 month old one & will only put second hand tyres on simply due to cost !
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Non Runflats and spare wheel
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Bmwx5 montenegro
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Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
If you have no money for tyres, maintainence you shouldnt drive this cars with coast over 60000euros. am i wrong?
Sry for bad english everyone.
Sent from my iPhone
Sry for bad english everyone.
Sent from my iPhone
Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
[quote="Nat"]
Its my Mrs who drives the X5 most of the time and I hear all the points made about comfort/ride quality/cost etc etc, but for me, I am , on principle for reasons given above ( and I havent got my X5 yet so could change my mind ) very much in favor of RFT's. Also applies to Grannies/Daughters/any other women in the family.
Just my view.
Regards,
Nat.
[/quote]
My view too, albeit better expressed than I would have put it. Each to their own on this I think - the Benstan family can live with the firm ride and the pros of RFTs outweigh the cons for us. We have the tyre insurance with ours - got lots of punctures on the E60 but the X is doing fine....I feel cheated weirdly!
Its my Mrs who drives the X5 most of the time and I hear all the points made about comfort/ride quality/cost etc etc, but for me, I am , on principle for reasons given above ( and I havent got my X5 yet so could change my mind ) very much in favor of RFT's. Also applies to Grannies/Daughters/any other women in the family.
Just my view.
Regards,
Nat.
[/quote]
My view too, albeit better expressed than I would have put it. Each to their own on this I think - the Benstan family can live with the firm ride and the pros of RFTs outweigh the cons for us. We have the tyre insurance with ours - got lots of punctures on the E60 but the X is doing fine....I feel cheated weirdly!
Current: 2012 X5 MSport 3.0d - carbon black, 3rd row, panoramic, media, TV, top-view camera, power boot.
Former: 2006 520d SE (E60) - auto, black leather
Former: 2006 520d SE (E60) - auto, black leather
Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
Lots of good points here so I will keep my options open.
Today I borrowed a F30 m sport from the dealers, it was fitted with 19" wheels and of course runflats, it also had the active suspension, all I can say is I was amazed by the ride quality, no crashing or bashing on my local roads, it had none of the characteristics of runflat tyres so BMW have obviously redesigned the suspension on these, I was very impressed to say the least and can't wait for the new 335d to be released which will be 4wd
Today I borrowed a F30 m sport from the dealers, it was fitted with 19" wheels and of course runflats, it also had the active suspension, all I can say is I was amazed by the ride quality, no crashing or bashing on my local roads, it had none of the characteristics of runflat tyres so BMW have obviously redesigned the suspension on these, I was very impressed to say the least and can't wait for the new 335d to be released which will be 4wd
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Don Coffey
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Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
what is week that you havent answered my question ?
Unfortunately syg9m, you have decided to make this personal. That I don't have a problem with but at least have the decency to take on board what I have said before. In some 500000 miles I have never had either a blowout or sudden lose of pressure. No one I know has either. So the conclusion has to be that tyres today are very, very good.
if at 80 mph you got a blow out on the auto bahn which car would stop safely the car with or without runflats ?
I haven't travelled on an Auto Bahn for over twenty years and see no reason why I will be in the future, but so as not to be seen as being picky, I concede that I do travel at eighty mph from time to time. Firstly we need to confirm what our definition of a blow out is. Mine is disintegration of the tyre so regardless of rf or nrf you will still only have three working tyres. If indeed you mean sudden lose of pressure, than without being in a position to do a comparison I can't answer that question, and neither can you unless of course you have access to data from someone who has done such a test.
Yes the caravan has breaks but at 2 ton it still has an impact on the cars breaking system & as only 3 wheels will have 100 percent grip the impact will be greater !
My caravan has four wheels with ATC and ABS, so in a situation where you are down to three tyres on the car, the caravan still has its full braking capacity and therefore could be in a position to give assistance to the car. A bonus maybe?
HGVs with a 44 tonne rating can run with between 14 and 20 tyres per rig. So even taking the 20 tyres, that's over two tons per tyres, yet once again you seem to have missed the point being made. Regardless of what you think, they are not run flat and their thicker side walls are to do with their loading. The side walls would have to be even thicker to be run flats.
Obviously BMW have worked closely with Bridgestone , Goodyear , Michelin , Continental etc investing multi millions on them , like their cars they are forward thinking .
Xenon lights were developed by someone (I don't know who) and have an obvious advantage and therefore been picked up by most manufacturers and readily available. Yet rf have not been wildly picked up by other manufacturers. They must have deceided that there safety advantages are minimul and not worth the expense, investment or fallout that BMW have witnessed.
I believe that the under funded road network ( pot holes etc ) are the main reason for wheels cracking otherwise they would have been taken out of production a long time ago .
I'm not sure what you are pointing out here, I certainly haven't heard of he rf being blamed for wheels cracking.
The guy with the runflats on the original wheels needs to have them checked as the wheels designed for runflats have larger inner shoulders that stop the tyre comming off the rims once deflated so that is a major concern !
I'm not sure this is correct, I am of the opinion that rf and nrf will fit any rims but happy to be corrected.
As I said before, it's a personal choice and still feel that the argument is not strong enough to have me reconsider.
Don
Unfortunately syg9m, you have decided to make this personal. That I don't have a problem with but at least have the decency to take on board what I have said before. In some 500000 miles I have never had either a blowout or sudden lose of pressure. No one I know has either. So the conclusion has to be that tyres today are very, very good.
if at 80 mph you got a blow out on the auto bahn which car would stop safely the car with or without runflats ?
I haven't travelled on an Auto Bahn for over twenty years and see no reason why I will be in the future, but so as not to be seen as being picky, I concede that I do travel at eighty mph from time to time. Firstly we need to confirm what our definition of a blow out is. Mine is disintegration of the tyre so regardless of rf or nrf you will still only have three working tyres. If indeed you mean sudden lose of pressure, than without being in a position to do a comparison I can't answer that question, and neither can you unless of course you have access to data from someone who has done such a test.
Yes the caravan has breaks but at 2 ton it still has an impact on the cars breaking system & as only 3 wheels will have 100 percent grip the impact will be greater !
My caravan has four wheels with ATC and ABS, so in a situation where you are down to three tyres on the car, the caravan still has its full braking capacity and therefore could be in a position to give assistance to the car. A bonus maybe?
HGVs with a 44 tonne rating can run with between 14 and 20 tyres per rig. So even taking the 20 tyres, that's over two tons per tyres, yet once again you seem to have missed the point being made. Regardless of what you think, they are not run flat and their thicker side walls are to do with their loading. The side walls would have to be even thicker to be run flats.
Obviously BMW have worked closely with Bridgestone , Goodyear , Michelin , Continental etc investing multi millions on them , like their cars they are forward thinking .
Xenon lights were developed by someone (I don't know who) and have an obvious advantage and therefore been picked up by most manufacturers and readily available. Yet rf have not been wildly picked up by other manufacturers. They must have deceided that there safety advantages are minimul and not worth the expense, investment or fallout that BMW have witnessed.
I believe that the under funded road network ( pot holes etc ) are the main reason for wheels cracking otherwise they would have been taken out of production a long time ago .
I'm not sure what you are pointing out here, I certainly haven't heard of he rf being blamed for wheels cracking.
The guy with the runflats on the original wheels needs to have them checked as the wheels designed for runflats have larger inner shoulders that stop the tyre comming off the rims once deflated so that is a major concern !
I'm not sure this is correct, I am of the opinion that rf and nrf will fit any rims but happy to be corrected.
As I said before, it's a personal choice and still feel that the argument is not strong enough to have me reconsider.
Don
Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
The last time I can recall anyone I know being in a car which had a blow out was nearly 30 years ago. I was a young rear seat passenger but I do recall it being quite a scary incident. Fortunately we were on a quiet motorway and the driver was going slow.
It just got me wondering how the technology in modern BMW's would cope? I assume all the traction / stability gizmos would do a good job in making it controllable at 'reasonable' speeds?
It just got me wondering how the technology in modern BMW's would cope? I assume all the traction / stability gizmos would do a good job in making it controllable at 'reasonable' speeds?
Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
I had a 'rapid' pressure loss following getting a 2" x .25" bolt through a front tyre at speed on the A1. The only reason I knew about it initially was the steering went heavy. The car's handling was totally unaffected. When the TPMS warning came on the only way I knew which tyre was affected (the car didin't tell me) was to physically check the tread temperature as the lower pressure will run warmer. Physically looking at the tyre it looked completely normal.
Our E46 and E53 both suffered rapid loss of pressure - the E46 had a catastrophic loss at speed after hitting debris which cut a chunk the size of a 50p out of the sidewall! - and stopped completely under control with no drama. The DSC & ABS (when braking) were all that appeared on the dash and the steering went heavy but it didn't 'snatch' into the direction of the failure (front left for the E46). Those were non-RFT tyres. The rim required a bit of repair due to scuffing but it was still fully serviceable even if unrepaired. Modern tyres of both types are truly impressive bits of engineering. It's one of the main reasons I stick to the major brands - they have invested in a lot of testing and design work which 'cheaper' brands may not have.
The current generation of RFT do not need special rims and you can fit RFT to cars which never came with RFT with no issues at all.
As Don said, caravans should have 'override' brakes so as the car slows the 'van' applies it's own brakes.
My own feeling as to why BMW went for RFT was to save the extra weight of a spare wheel, jack, toolkit etc. with the millions of tyres they buy from the manufacturers there probably isn't much of a cost difference - and if there was they would undoubtedly have passed every penny/cent on to us with a healthy markup.
RFTs may give a harder ride - and BMW really should have done something about it - but overall they are safer although we almost universally decry their use.
To answer syg9m though, I think the non-RFT tyres will still allow a lot of control compared to say ten years ago, but stopping safely is also highly dependant upon how the individual driver reacts to the failure and not just the tyre. The combined weight distribution between tractor and trailer also plays a significant part in how the 'outfit' behaves. The weather also plays it's part, as does whether the driver is driving sensibly and not barrel-arsing along with little regard to safety.
As an aside: Several years back one of our ex-neighbours' sisters turned up having driven 50 miles with a front left puncture on a Ford Escort. The tyre had got so hot that it looked like a hedgehog with all the steel belting haven broken up and poked through the now melted tread area, but amazingly she had not noticed(!) and the tyre was still on the rim. I fitted her spare before she went home!!
Too many trucks around here - and all the foreign ones - seem to have the 56mph limiter 'disabled'. >:(
Richard
Our E46 and E53 both suffered rapid loss of pressure - the E46 had a catastrophic loss at speed after hitting debris which cut a chunk the size of a 50p out of the sidewall! - and stopped completely under control with no drama. The DSC & ABS (when braking) were all that appeared on the dash and the steering went heavy but it didn't 'snatch' into the direction of the failure (front left for the E46). Those were non-RFT tyres. The rim required a bit of repair due to scuffing but it was still fully serviceable even if unrepaired. Modern tyres of both types are truly impressive bits of engineering. It's one of the main reasons I stick to the major brands - they have invested in a lot of testing and design work which 'cheaper' brands may not have.
The current generation of RFT do not need special rims and you can fit RFT to cars which never came with RFT with no issues at all.
As Don said, caravans should have 'override' brakes so as the car slows the 'van' applies it's own brakes.
My own feeling as to why BMW went for RFT was to save the extra weight of a spare wheel, jack, toolkit etc. with the millions of tyres they buy from the manufacturers there probably isn't much of a cost difference - and if there was they would undoubtedly have passed every penny/cent on to us with a healthy markup.
RFTs may give a harder ride - and BMW really should have done something about it - but overall they are safer although we almost universally decry their use.
To answer syg9m though, I think the non-RFT tyres will still allow a lot of control compared to say ten years ago, but stopping safely is also highly dependant upon how the individual driver reacts to the failure and not just the tyre. The combined weight distribution between tractor and trailer also plays a significant part in how the 'outfit' behaves. The weather also plays it's part, as does whether the driver is driving sensibly and not barrel-arsing along with little regard to safety.
As an aside: Several years back one of our ex-neighbours' sisters turned up having driven 50 miles with a front left puncture on a Ford Escort. The tyre had got so hot that it looked like a hedgehog with all the steel belting haven broken up and poked through the now melted tread area, but amazingly she had not noticed(!) and the tyre was still on the rim. I fitted her spare before she went home!!
Too many trucks around here - and all the foreign ones - seem to have the 56mph limiter 'disabled'. >:(
Richard
Last edited by X5Sport on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never anthropomorphise computers. They hate that.
Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
I believe that the under funded road network ( pot holes etc ) are the main reason for wheels cracking otherwise they would have been taken out of production a long time ago .
That was on the e92 (with 225style wheels mostly), and the RFT were proved to be the main cause, and once "normal" tyres were fitted there has not been reports of wheel damage.
The guy with the runflats on the original wheels needs to have them checked as the wheels designed for runflats have larger inner shoulders that stop the tyre comming off the rims once deflated so that is a major concern !
That is dealer B.S so that they can sell more RFT, there is no such thing as a run flat wheel. If there was then BMW are selling the M3 with normal tyres on run flat wheels.
That was on the e92 (with 225style wheels mostly), and the RFT were proved to be the main cause, and once "normal" tyres were fitted there has not been reports of wheel damage.
The guy with the runflats on the original wheels needs to have them checked as the wheels designed for runflats have larger inner shoulders that stop the tyre comming off the rims once deflated so that is a major concern !
That is dealer B.S so that they can sell more RFT, there is no such thing as a run flat wheel. If there was then BMW are selling the M3 with normal tyres on run flat wheels.
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syg9m
Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
Article written by Olli warlord bmwland.co.uk 18th Dec 2011
Normal wheels have a bead contour seat denomination of h2 , which means double hump , run flat wheels are EH2 ,which means extended double hump and makes sure the rft tyres sits well with its thicker sidewall and doesn't come off when run flat .
The same tyre on a normal rim would not sit secure , due to the different bead contour , which is the flaw in the security thinking , as it may come off when run on flat and then you are stranded .
Best thing to do is buy the tyres Mr Coffey suggests obviously he knows best & if you or your partner get a flat tyre just remember his name when trying to change it !
The thing that is confusing me is A. Why you brought the HGV into the argument .
B. How if you have never had a blow out , how you know what you are talking about ?
I had a blow out hitting debris in the outside lane on the M25 , just lets say I was moving very quickly front left hand tyre , went from the fast lane to the hard shoulder in 300 yards . Fortunately no one was hurt but tyre technology has come a long way from then , got the jack out of the boot and the spare wheel , jacked the car up put the spare on let the car down and found that the spare was flat !
Make your own mind up but make sure it is branded as you can't always get it right !
By the way why is your car on every article you write ?
Normal wheels have a bead contour seat denomination of h2 , which means double hump , run flat wheels are EH2 ,which means extended double hump and makes sure the rft tyres sits well with its thicker sidewall and doesn't come off when run flat .
The same tyre on a normal rim would not sit secure , due to the different bead contour , which is the flaw in the security thinking , as it may come off when run on flat and then you are stranded .
Best thing to do is buy the tyres Mr Coffey suggests obviously he knows best & if you or your partner get a flat tyre just remember his name when trying to change it !
The thing that is confusing me is A. Why you brought the HGV into the argument .
B. How if you have never had a blow out , how you know what you are talking about ?
I had a blow out hitting debris in the outside lane on the M25 , just lets say I was moving very quickly front left hand tyre , went from the fast lane to the hard shoulder in 300 yards . Fortunately no one was hurt but tyre technology has come a long way from then , got the jack out of the boot and the spare wheel , jacked the car up put the spare on let the car down and found that the spare was flat !
Make your own mind up but make sure it is branded as you can't always get it right !
By the way why is your car on every article you write ?
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Don Coffey
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Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
Like I said before. You have chosen to take this personally. Maybe you could take the time to go over my previous posts and if possible highlight were I was either having a go at you or indeed were I advise anyone to go the non run flat route.
I am expressing my view and reasonings. Nothing more!
Don
PS. It's called a signature. I'm sorry if this offends you but I quite like it.
I am expressing my view and reasonings. Nothing more!
Don
PS. It's called a signature. I'm sorry if this offends you but I quite like it.
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Don Coffey
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Re: Non Runflats and spare wheel
Seriously syg9m, I don't see the reason for your tone ('Mr. Coffey' etc).
This is an interesting thread and Don has expressed his preference and reasoning in a very calm, balanced and non-judgemental manner. There really is no need to turn it into an argument.
I think 'agree to disagree and move on' is the best policy here.
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Huck (iPhone mode!)
This is an interesting thread and Don has expressed his preference and reasoning in a very calm, balanced and non-judgemental manner. There really is no need to turn it into an argument.
I think 'agree to disagree and move on' is the best policy here.
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Huck (iPhone mode!)
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Don Coffey
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