4.6is - decided to LPG convert

[Greydog]

Aaron it just got betterhttp://xdrivers.co.uk/forum/Smileys/xdrivers-smiley/laugh.gif

Absolutely nothing wrong just had it MOT'd no advisories so a real bargain and the LPG a bonus.
The main thing is as far as I can tell it having LPG made no difference to the price when I brought it.
So if your buying look for one ready converted and save a couple of grand. If you have one I guess it's the payback equation that has to take precedence.

[Imy]

[quote="Raj"]
I keep going round in circles with LPG'ing my 4.8.

I keep getting such mixed messages on the longer term issues on the engine with LPG. The other factor is the cost. I know peeps are getting fairly cheap quotes etc from companies like the ones highlighted here but I always want to get the best but the cost of the Prins systems for example are like £2200.

Hmmmmmmm
[/quote]

Go BRC man, its cheaper and still great quality. Ive read just as many good things about BRC as I have Prins. They both use their own componenents which are manufactured for themselves, rather than the cheaper kits that mix and match.

[Raj]

[quote="Don Coffey"]
[quote="Raj"]
I keep going round in circles with LPG'ing my 4.8.

I keep getting such mixed messages on the longer term issues on the engine with LPG. The other factor is the cost. I know peeps are getting fairly cheap quotes etc from companies like the ones highlighted here but I always want to get the best but the cost of the Prins systems for example are like £2200.

Hmmmmmmm
[/quote]

Does that include fitting Raj?

What sort of price would a similar speced LPG car get against a non lpg'ed one?

Don
[/quote]

Hi Don,

that does include fitting (but that price was last year so may be a touch higher now).

I'm not too worried about resale, because if I get it converted I'd certainly be keeping for quite sometime to come.

[Geezer]

Some really interesting and helpful comments guys.

Overall everyone who has an LPG, either by way of conversion or acquisition, has had a positive experience. Even IanP's dubious installer has still left him with a positive experience. It is really too good to be true?

I phoned the mechanic today and he said the X is ready, so can't wait to pick it up on Friday  )

He's assured me he's bee driving it for a few days and even took it to a rip roaring speed on the motor to test it out and all is well (as long as he hasnt picked up any speeding tickets on it).

[gchristofi]

I have the (circular) arguments in my head most of the time re lpg in my 4.4.  Just as I convince myself to go ahead I always seem to look too far and come up with an article such as this....

http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems

Admittedly, bmw x5 is not specifically mentioned, but info worth considering nonetheless!

[murf62]

[quote="http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems"]
Pre 2006 L322 Range Rovers with BMW engines and Older P38 4.0 and 4.6 V8 Rover engines are fine and will easily cover large mileages[/quote]

http://amrautos.co.uk/database_problem_cars.pdf

[Raj]

[quote="gchristofi"]
I have the (circular) arguments in my head most of the time re lpg in my 4.4.  Just as I convince myself to go ahead I always seem to look too far and come up with an article such as this....

http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems

Admittedly, bmw x5 is not specifically mentioned, but info worth considering nonetheless!
[/quote]

Did read through but does also say BMW seem to not suffer the same.

What I do find interesting is the real cost comparison of the fuel itself which appears to work out to more like 99p ish per litre due to the reduced mpg.

That would mean it would take far longer to recoup your initial outlay costs.

[Raj]

[quote="murf62"]
[quote="http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems"]
Pre 2006 L322 Range Rovers with BMW engines and Older P38 4.0 and 4.6 V8 Rover engines are fine and will easily cover large mileages[/quote]

http://amrautos.co.uk/database_problem_cars.pdf
[/quote]

I'm thinking just sell my lovely 4.8is for a 320d and be done with it....hmmm

[Geezer]

Also, I don't see any BMWs mentioned on the list of 'problem cars'

http://amrautos.co.uk/database_problem_cars.pdf

But as always, not all cars suffer from the problems identified and most people only 'make noise' when they have a problem. That doesn't take away from the fact that problems do exist and we should be cautious.

[DougieV8]

My dad had his Jaguar x type 2.1 V6 done at leeds lpg also - they advised that due to valve issues that an extra lubrication kit was required. This involves a bottle to be topped up every 10 fills or so that drip lubricates to ensure no issue. As noted though not required for the V8 X5's.

My 4.4 typically does 20mpg, on lpg i calculate a drop to 18mpg - Therfore 10% loss in mpg but currently at 71.9p/litre lpg compared to 138.9p/litre unleaded thi is a massive saving. My system starts on petrol and switches over at 45c to lpg so some petrol usage typically £10 to every £55 of lpg. from this £65 I will get around 300 miles which would cost around £100 if run on petrol.

By my calculations my initially outlay was paid back in 9000 miles of motoring - If you are doing less stop start than me then you will recoup quicker.

[murf62]

[quote="Raj"]
What I do find interesting is the real cost comparison of the fuel itself which appears to work out to m
ore like 99p ish per litre due to the reduced mpg.

That would mean it would take far longer to recoup your initial outlay costs.
[/quote]

The best way to decide that would be to do real world comparisons based on cost, rather than MPG.

My LPG tank holds 60 litres when full, this costs me £42 (Morrisons, Penarth @ 69.9p).  I get an average of 198 miles on a tank, so:

198/42=4.71 mpp (miles per pound) or 42/198 = 21p per mile.

This calculation is ignoring the first mile or two of a journey when running on petrol, but I don't do many short journeys so it won't distort the figures much.  Once you know exactly what you are (and will be) paying per mile, you can calculate how much you will be saving for a given mileage and can see whether the conversion is viable.

What "mpp" is everyone else getting?  LPG, Petrol or Diesel.

[Imy]

I currently get 250 of in town miles but I write 50 off due to starting on petrol.

Iv got an 80l tank which normally fills to around 72l.

72l @ 67p = £48.24

200/48.24 = 4.14 miles per £ or 24p per mile.

I think thats right, and all of my trips are in town start stop driving, and majority are short trips too.

PS mine is a 3l

[Raj]

[quote="DougieV8"]
My dad had his Jaguar x type 2.1 V6 done at leeds lpg also - they advised that due to valve issues that an extra lubrication kit was required. This involves a bottle to be topped up every 10 fills or so that drip lubricates to ensure no issue. As noted though not required for the V8 X5's.

My 4.4 typically does 20mpg, on lpg i calculate a drop to 18mpg - Therfore 10% loss in mpg but currently at 71.9p/litre lpg compared to 138.9p/litre unleaded thi is a massive saving. My system starts on petrol and switches over at 45c to lpg so some petrol usage typically £10 to every £55 of lpg. from this £65 I will get around 300 miles which would cost around £100 if run on petrol.

By my calculations my initially outlay was paid back in 9000 miles of motoring - If you are doing less stop start than me then you will recoup quicker.
[/quote]

It's the valve issues I'm worried about as the last thing I'd want to do is pay a heap of money to convert it but then find I have to spend a whole heap more due to the valve issues caused.

On that link above it certainly doesn't suggest BMW engines suffer with this issue BUT then my next question would be why? Why are the same issues not seen on the BM engines?

I think I could recoup the initial cost quite quickly as I did just use THIS LINK and put in an average mileage of 10k at 19mpg costing 140p/lt and gave a saving of £1300 over the year in fuel. It does seem to use an average loss of 13% in mpg as part of the calculation (which ties a little in to what Imy said).

[murf62]

£1.40 x 60 = £84

60 litres - 13.198 Imp Gal

@ 19 mpg you will get 13.198 x 19 = 251 miles (on 60 litres)

Therefore you are currently getting:

251/84= 2.99 mpp (miles per pound) or 84/251 = 33p per mile.

My figures (4.6is which I don't drive particularly conservatively)

198/42=4.71 mpp (miles per pound) or 42/198 = 21p per mile.

These are all real world figures, not based on assumptions of percentages lost but give roughly the same savings as the calculator you used.  You will save 12p/mile so for your 10000 miles, you will save £1200/annum.

The BMW V8s are particularly well suited to LPG conversions which is one of the reasons I bought an X5.  There is no way I would consider a thirsty V8 without LPG.  What are you waiting for?

[Imy]

Raj,

I dont think you will have anything to worry about.
The JAG engines I think generally are not set up to be suited for LPG. Installers usually charge extra for Jags as there are a few extra components that are required to install.

Overall the 13% seems like an adequet estimate. Raj, mate go for it, go BRC and save a little on the Prins. You honestly wont realise the satisfaction of LPG until you experience it.

I never knew how good it would make me feel walking into a petrol station and paying £50 to fill up a full tank for an X5.

Although only go for it if your going to

a) do the mileage

and/or

b) going to keep the motor for a while yet.

I wasnt sure of either which is why i bought already converted.