Testing and Diagnosing the E53 Webasto Thermo Top C/Z

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:57 pm

Thanks pal think this one is going to be along time waiting before they are working !!!! I've got the silencer !!!

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:39 pm

[quote="wilkoturbo"]
Think. My plumbing is different !!?? Is mine working like BMW said it should 1.5 c just started the engine drove a few mile and the WebO is red hot but no hot air out the exhauste !!??
[/quote]
Looks like mine I think, start at the water pump at the front of the car, follow the pipe into the bottom of the webo, then out the top of the webo down into that splitter valve, then two pipes out that both going to the heater matrix on the bulkhead.

jaynana · Post by **jaynana** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:41 pm

[quote="wilkoturbo"]
Thanks pal think this one is going to be along time waiting before they are working !!!! I've got the silencer !!!
[/quote]

your's plumbing under the webo looks all very similar to mine, but the air inlet has a slight variation from what i have mate, note the inlet silencer and the alu foil inlet pipe in mine.. (ignore the annotations its an old photo)

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:38 pm

Right I've fitted a new battery today , then before starting the car I put power to pin 1 the webo fired up for about 2 mins , the car was cold the webo blowed cold air out the exhaust , and it was pumping water around too !!!!!!!!!! So now what is next I haven't cleaned it or remove from the car !!!

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:35 pm

Sounds exactly like mine, for the cheapest fix id remove it from teh car, clean the crap out of it then try again, aslo would need to know the fault recorded on the car, mine just said glow plug fault, rather than glow plug short circuit etc, (edited to correct wrong info

)

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:03 pm

Many thanks how do u check the resistance I've got a multi meter !! Not sure how to use it !!! Plus what cables are the glow plug ??
Many thanks Paul

jevansio · Post by **jevansio** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:06 am

You need to remove the plastic cover in the middle going over the top of some of the wires. The glow plug is the big thick blue/white pair going inside the unit, remove its plug out of the pcb connector. Just switch your multimeter to the smallest ohms (200 ohms prolly) and put the multimeter across the plug with the white/blue wires. It should give a small resistance 0.3-0.6 ohms, if it's 0 or -1 (ie wide open) it's prolly screwed.

PS I was totally drunk last night when I wrote that other post, 0.2 to 0.3 is incorrect, it should be 0.3 ohm to 0.6 ohm. It's quite possible my glowpin was fine (at 0.5 ohm) and all it needed was a clean (as I tested the glowpin on the bench and it glowed redhot within seconds).

mcc05 · Post by **mcc05** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:12 pm

Ok its finally time for me to make my heater come on by remote, keep forgetting to set the b*** timer.

However I fancy doing it using the BMW remote and a combination of button pushes. Anyone know of a 12v pulse or relay that gets set when you open/close the car by the remote, pref in the boot near the battery?

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:43 pm

[quote="jevansio"]
You need to remove the plastic cover in the middle going over the top of some of the wires. The glow plug is the big thick blue/white pair going inside the unit, remove its plug out of the pcb connector. Just switch your multimeter to the smallest ohms (200 ohms prolly) and put the multimeter across the plug with the white/blue wires. It should give a small resistance 0.3-0.6 ohms, if it's 0 or -1 (ie wide open) it's prolly screwed.

PS I was totally drunk last night when I wrote that other post, 0.2 to 0.3 is incorrect, it should be 0.3 ohm to 0.6 ohm. It's quite possible my glowpin was fine (at 0.5 ohm) and all it needed was a clean (as I tested the glowpin on the bench and it glowed redhot within seconds).
[/quote]

Well after getting in the wifes X5 and it being toasty, the temp guage whizzing up to the centre dead quick, spewing warm gases out the exhaust under the passenger door it mus be time to see what's wrong with mine

My plan of attack.....can someone confirm or correct what I plan to d please?

1) She gets "preheating" on the dashboard.....I do not, is this the lackof webasto?
2) The temp guage on hers whizzes up to dead centre....mine rarely does and has only done twice so recently....and probably traffic related
3) Mine makes whirring (the Webasto) noises when ever power or locks are applied such as arming or disarming the car. This lasts for a few minutes.Posts above suggest this is some sort of clearing?
4) The posts suggest (after I have opened the bonnet and it has shut up whirring) that ifI hotwire the green/white cable it should eventually fire up(not sure if igntion needs to be on)
5) If not it may be locked (but why would it whir?) and that removal of a fuse (location unknown) may reset it. I might try just pulling the cables out the webasto....would that not achieve the same thing?
7) Failing that I should remove a cap (top middle) that should reveal wires leading to the glow plug. Not sure which cover and whether this is the only cover needing to be removed. I should then unplug these wires from the top and check the resistance. It should give a small resistance 0.3-0.6 ohms, if it's 0 or -1 (ie wide open)

jaynana · Post by **jaynana** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:26 am

my thinking..

[quote="storminmike"]
1) She gets "preheating" on the dashboard.....I do not, is this the lackof webasto?
[/quote]

does this 'preheating' indicate webo activity, is it not the glow plugs of the engine?

[quote="storminmike"]
2) The temp guage on hers whizzes up to dead centre....mine rarely does and has only done twice so recently....and probably traffic related
[/quote]
webo is intended to bring it up faster if its <5c outside. but then if you're in traffic diesel engines take time to heat up. plus webo doesn't take it all the way to dead centre. so this may be a combination of factors difficult to tell.

from this i take it your webo doesn't fire up even when the car is started when outside is < 5c?

[quote="storminmike"]
3) Mine makes whirring (the Webasto) noises when ever power or locks are applied such as arming or disarming the car. This lasts for a few minutes.Posts above suggest this is some sort of clearing?
[/quote]

that's not right. not had this so can't be sure. is it some k-bus interference..? don't know. one thing to check is when this happens do you notice +12v on pin 1 to webo? (not that that's the only way to power up teh webo. webo can also be fired up by the k-bus which cannot be monitored on the pin 1)

[quote="storminmike"]
4) The posts suggest (after I have opened the bonnet and it has shut up whirring) that ifI hotwire the green/white cable it should eventually fire up(not sure if igntion needs to be on)
[/quote]

green/white being pin 1 (not sure)? if so no, ignition does not need to be on. (note though in mine there's no whirring when the bonnet is opened.)

as a general note, this whirring for every button press etc is very unusual. should that be looked at first? although i have no idea where to start..

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:13 pm

[quote="jaynana"]
my thinking..

[quote="storminmike"]
1) She gets "preheating" on the dashboard.....I do not, is this the lackof webasto?
[/quote]

does this 'preheating' indicate webo activity, is it not the glow plugs of the engine?

[quote="storminmike"]
2) The temp guage on hers whizzes up to dead centre....mine rarely does and has only done twice so recently....and probably traffic related
[/quote]
webo is intended to bring it up faster if its <5c outside. but then if you're in traffic diesel engines take time to heat up. plus webo doesn't take it all the way to dead centre. so this may be a combination of factors difficult to tell.

from this i take it your webo doesn't fire up even when the car is started when outside is < 5c?

[quote="storminmike"]
3) Mine makes whirring (the Webasto) noises when ever power or locks are applied such as arming or disarming the car. This lasts for a few minutes.Posts above suggest this is some sort of clearing?
[/quote]

that's not right. not had this so can't be sure. is it some k-bus interference..? don't know. one thing to check is when this happens do you notice +12v on pin 1 to webo? (not that that's the only way to power up teh webo. webo can also be fired up by the k-bus which cannot be monitored on the pin 1)

[quote="storminmike"]
4) The posts suggest (after I have opened the bonnet and it has shut up whirring) that ifI hotwire the green/white cable it should eventually fire up(not sure if igntion needs to be on)
[/quote]

green/white being pin 1 (not sure)? if so no, ignition does not need to be on. (note though in mine there's no whirring when the bonnet is opened.)

as a general note, this whirring for every button press etc is very unusual. should that be looked at first? although i have no idea where to start..
[/quote]

Update

Today (as it was bloody cold) I went to have a further look. As usual the fan span up in the webasto when I opened the door. Eventually it stopped and it was the fan as I could feel the breeze under the car.

Stripped a bit of insulation away from the green/white and hotwired it up to 12v. Fan span up immediatley....and kept going and going and going....no heat though just spinning. I took the 12v away and.....it continued to run... then eventually stopped. I took this "continued to run" to be similiar to that when say unlocking or locking the car provokes it......for which it must then FAIL because of some other issue.

Not knowing if this was some sort of lock out I proceded to turn the ignition on and got the "Pre-heating" warning. Tried again....not heat

Next I pulled the power plug out of the webasto...left it for a minute,,,,,put it back and off it went spinning
again

Started the car.......then pulled the plug...and evetually put it back....no different

Joggled the middle cover off (broke a bit) and found a plug with two thick wires underneath. I assumed this was the Web Glow plug. Resistance was measured at 0.8ohms

Fingers now frozen I gave up for now.

incidentally, in the wifes car I heard coming from the back a TICK TOCK slow sound.....sounded like a slow grandfather clock speed pump noise. Can't recall hearing it in mine or hers before but then again I wasn't listening so closely

Her Web ran as well.....the dampness under mine suggests it's a long time since it ever ran...if at all

Stumped

X5 ALN · Post by **X5 ALN** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:15 am

The pre-heating warning on the dash is for the engine glow plugs.

jaynana · Post by **jaynana** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:29 pm

[quote="storminmike"]
incidentally, in the wifes car I heard coming from the back a TICK TOCK slow sound.....sounded like a slow grandfather clock speed pump noise. Can't recall hearing it in mine or hers before but then again I wasn't listening so closely

[/quote]

this is normal, its the aux fuel pump. this is usually a good indicator as it shows that the webo is moving beyond the initial ventilation stage..

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:04 am

[quote="jaynana"]
[quote="storminmike"]
incidentally, in the wifes car I heard coming from the back a TICK TOCK slow sound.....sounded like a slow grandfather clock speed pump noise. Can't recall hearing it in mine or hers before but then again I wasn't listening so closely

[/quote]

this is normal, its the aux fuel pump. this is usually a good indicator as it shows that the webo is moving beyond the initial ventilation stage..
[/quote]

apart from that was the wifes car and not mine

. Her webbo works mine does not (we both have X5s :-[)

Maybe that's the problem, is there a fuse for the pump, should the pump work always regardless of the temperature call? If this is the case then I can crawl around and listen for it

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:06 am

[quote="X5 ALN"]
The pre-heating warning on the dash is for the engine glow plugs.
[/quote]

Thought as much. Was clutching at straws as my X5 seems to be less inclined to display that than on the wifes X5

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