Engine Failsafe Program, Trans Failsafe Program, ABS, DSC

[sitrom]

Hello all,

a couple weeks and as I was driving my car, a bell chimed and a message came up on the screen saying ENGINE FAILSAFE PROGRAM. Together with the message, the ABS, and DSC lights came on. As soon as these lights came on, the car was sluggish under acceleration. The next morning, I turned the engine on and the car was driving fine. I took it to my garage and he scanned the codes for me and he told me that the error codes indicated an issue with the ABS pump valves. He told me that this is a frequent error that comes up with the X5, he cleared up the codes he told me that it might cure and the car was driving fine.

Yesterday, after coming back from holiday I start my car and the message and lights re-appeared immediately before driving off. I drove it for a mile or so, then turned the engine off and then back on, and the messages were gone and the car was driving fine. Drove it for over 20 miles and it was fine.

Today, again I jumped in the car, and after a couple miles of driving it, the same message and lights came back on. I drove it for about 5 miles, turned the engine off, and when I turned it back on, the car wouldn't drive at more than 10MPH, and wouldn't rev at more than 1200RPM, the transmission light came on and another message appeared on the screen saying TRANS. FAILSAFE PROGRAM. and the car was un-drivable. After reading around, I got even more confused about what the issue might be.

The car is going in the garage in the morning, but I am worried that they might struggle to find the fault as, the car seems to be clearing the faults overnight. Do you guys have any idea?

[graemeX5]

Hi and welcome,

I m not sure if this helps but remembered i seen this mentioned recently by another member. Have a look at this link it may shed some light in the subject

http://xdrivers.co.uk/forum/https://xdr ... ic.php?t=7

[shadrack]

Should still drive over 10mph in trans fail safe it will just be locked in one gear either 3rd or 4th me thinks, also have you checked battery\ alternator with as many codes as that apearing and going just as quick, has the car recentlt been fully flat etc

[sitrom]

The car was actually stuck in 2 gear. I tried to go into StepTronic and change manually but obviously it wouldn't let me. The indicator was showing stuck in 2. As soon as I would press on the accelerator, the car would start jerking but not going any faster.

The car has been in the garage today and they scanned it and they found on code. The code they found so far is Throttle Body Valve, completely different to the ABS Module Valve they found last time.

Also they told me that they checked the alternator and it is charging fine. I think that this is starting to be a wild goose chase which is extremely frustrating....and starts changing my mind about what a brilliant car the X5 is.

[X5Sport]

I might have missed it, but which version have you got?

An area to check is the battery terminals in the boot are dry and tightened.  Whilst it might be a more serious issue, battery problems are a known source of all sorts of weird codes - regardless of what the alternator is doing a duff battery is and remains a duff battery! - usually also spurious, which appear either at first startup or sometime shortly afterwards if the battery isn't accepting the charge from the alternator.

You can do a basic battery check from under the bonnet using the charging terminals and should see at least 12.2V after 4 hours from last use, and 14.4V on charge.  Anything much below 12V indicates an issue to be looked at.  Batteries more than 6 years old are usually approaching end of life.

Trans Failsafe should lock you in 3rd or 5th on a 6-spd box, and limit you to 50mph.  The engine failsafe may limit you further of course.

I didn't think an ABS pump would cause a speed restriction as the brakes still work just without ABS.

Have a look at the battery side and see what that's doing.  In case you haven't discovered it, you'll find it at the back of the boot under the spare wheel and air compressor dome unit.

Richard

[sitrom]

X5Sport many thanks for your reply. My car is a 2001 X5 3.0i Sport edition. I forgot to mention that. The car has been in my ownership for 2.5 years and for the last 1.5 year it has only be doing 2-3 miles a day apart from the occasional trip. Also, the nature of the issues, coming and going after I left the car parked for a long time would indicate an issue with the charging system. Furthermore, about a month or so ago, I disconnected the battery from the boot because I had to repair my horn (it was beeping constantly as a screw became loose in the horn assembly), and didn't want the airbag to ignite in my face. I do remember tightening the terminals but maybe they came loose again. I will once again ask the garage that they check the battery as per your instructions. I remember reading somewhere that the car might appear to be charging normally, however if there is a voltage during the drive then you might get Engine Failsafe Prog come up.

It is extremely frustrating, as the car had just been in for a service (which included a change in the diff oil) and a couple sensors were replaced, which completely transformed the car and it was driving like a dream. The gears were changing very smooth and the engine was pulling very well.

I am afraid to say that even though I am extremely happy with the service I have been getting from this garage in terms of mechanical work over the past couple of years, when it came to the electrical issues they rely purely on what the diagnostic codes tell them, and don't really know how to approach them and tell them where to look in case they feel insulted...

[X5Sport]

Hmmm, welcome to the common dealer issue we've all experienced over the years.  If the diagnostic computer doesn't say 'it's broke' then it isn't according to them and they don't know what to do next.  It's very annoying!

You can do the basic battery checks yourself with a simple (and cheap) multimeter.  The checks are very straightforward to do.

A fully charged 'good' battery should show 12.6V.  You can check this waiting 4 hours from last use and then by opening the bonnet, locking the car, waiting 20 mins to make the the car has shut down and then measuring at the charging terminals.

If you are getting 11.7V or less then it's new battery time.

You could ask the Dealer to do a 'drop test'.  It's nothing to do with gravity honest.  The battery is connected to a device which puts a hefty electrical load on the battery for a defined period after which the volts are measured again.  If they fall below a certain point then the battery isn't holding charge.  Any battery of 6 or more years is 'likely' to be in this state.  By your details you are approaching the EOL of your second battery. 

Short journeys are a killer on these cars.  The on-board systems are power hungry and three miles a day will kill it.  Some of us use battery conditioners to keep the battery 'cycled' and healthy.

One trick to try is turn the key to the Pos2 (all lights on), then pause until they all cycle and either go out or to Amber, then crank the car.  This allows all the systems to boot up correctly..

Being a 2001 car, you have a 5-sp box, and yes they lock in 2nd if memory serves.

I expect over the coming weeks, the colder weather will find the weak batteries and there will be a few looking for new ones.

How to get at the battery thread

[sitrom]

So I spoke with the garage and told them what you mentioned and after they told me that they did perform a drop test on the battery I decided to just go ahead and change the battery anyway. I think the battery on the car is about 5 years old and I have already run it flat a couple times in the last year so for the sake of £100 i thought what the hell. Also, they found a split on a hose after the throttle body and they are replacing this hose as well. I find it highly unlikely that a split hose could have caused all this trouble including Transmission Failure codes, but once again I thought that it needed doing anyway and the cost is minimal. They said that since they cleared up the codes yesterday, they run the car and no codes have shown up since.

My plan is to pick the car up tomorrow and go for a long drive around my area to see what happens. It looks like this fault is going to have to be trial and error until we pin point exactly where the fault lies, unless the fault doesn't come back after tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

[X5Sport]

Fingers crossed....at least the hose fault was found - so that sorted the throttle issue.  And you have a nice healthy battery for the imminent frosty season.

Richard

[Gazzi c]

The split throttle body boot might have something to do with the trans fail safe message I replace the boot on mine the other week as it was split started the car with the new boot and the trans fail safe popped straight up then I realised I hadnt re connected the maf sensor put that back on and all is well

[sitrom]

So I picked up the car today after changing the hose and the battery. I drove it for about 150 miles and all was well including driving on the motorway at speed, or getting stuck in motorway stop and start traffic until.....10 miles before I got home, on the M25, the car lost all power, and obviously I got all the lights again on and the two dreaded messages. Engine and Trans failsafe program. I pulled over on the hard shoulder and performed a transmission reset (the one where you hold the gas pedal down for 30 sec) and then restarted the engine and all the messages were gone, the lights went off and I managed to drive home. So the fault is still not rectified.
I don't know if it's worth taking it back to the same garage since they don't even seem to know what is happening.

Interestingly when I got home and switched the engine off, I got another message telling me to check the engine oil level. I didn't do it tonight as it is too dark but will check it tomorrow.

I'm fast approaching losing my trust in this car as this kind of fault seems to be like a wild goose chase.

[X5Sport]

Certainly worth taking it back because they've charged you for a problem but not fixed it. Indy or main dealer?

I had all sorts of starting problems with my E53 and the dealership kept changing things (at their expense) but failed to solve the issue.  They tried to charge me £500 for one repair (I refused to pay it) which didn't fix the problem but wrecked the tracking device. Took it to another dealership and they found the problem first time - faulty starter motor.  It was found by a techie who ignored the computer system and worked everything through the logical way.

It was the 'loss of faith' in the Dealerships (plural) capabilities - or rather the lack of them - in the event of electrical gremlins that in the end made me lose faith in the car.  I loved my X5 but just stopped trusting it and even tiny issues seemed to take days to track down and that gets very expensive.

We've still not got to the bottom of why the dash failed on the X6.  It's done it only once but the cause remains a mystery.  I asked the dealer to print the fault codes out so I have a record.....it came to 14-pages!  All from one module dropping off the car network.  I spent more than an hour working through the various issues with their electronics guru - being an electronics engineer helped - rather than the service desk, and all we could think of in the end was a momentary power supply issue and the module shut down.

Try PMing StevoX5 or try Jason as I think both have been (or still are) BMW Techs...

Play hardball with the Dealership!

[sitrom]

So I called the garage and told them about the fault and the guy was genuinely upset (Indy).

I told them that now I got another car to move around, I will drop my car over to them and they can have as much time as they want to figure out exactly what is wrong, because truth be told, I was rushing them this week as I needed to have a car yesterday.

As far as Jason is concerned, I did take my car over to his garage for a service once (he wasn't there), as I leave very close to them, and was very pleased with the service I received on the day. During the service, they found a few items wrong with the car, and I asked them to send me a quote so I can book my car in to have them fixed, however despite a couple reminders from myself, I never received a quote so wasn't really happy with the after-service. I might give Jason a ring (and try to speak with him this time) and see if he has any words of wisdom.

So the car is going into the same garage tomorrow, (they are picking it up themselves), and the guy told me that they will try to get a BMW Electronics Specialist at their own expense in to have a look and run some "advanced" diagnostics. I wish that I had access to the electronic diagram of the car's wiring, and diagnostics, and basic knowledge about what triggers the ECU to issue these messages, as I, like you, am an electronics engineer and believe I could identify where the problem is.

Anyway, many thanks for your help and support X5Sport and the other forum members, if you or anyone has any other suggestions I am all ears, as I don't think I will have another update for a week or so whilst they tear my car apart.

[Steamyrotter]

[quote="X5Sport"]

Being a 2001 car, you have a 5-sp box, and yes they lock in 2nd if memory serves.

How to get at the battery thread
[/quote]

According to the manual (and my experience) the GM 5L40E will lock in 5th if you are driving  (ie all solenoids will be powered down - defaults to 5th) then sets safety fluid circuit to lock it in 4th after a stop go scenario.

[Steamyrotter]

Electrical diagrams :- http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/


regards