X3 or X5?

[bimmerdan]

Evening all,

I'm currently a E46 320d touring driver and am thinking about buying a used X3 or X5.

At the moment I'm just doing all the research into buying one and am wondering if people could let me know of anything to look out for (for example swirl flap failures, turbo problems etc) with either model whilst I try to decide what to purchase.

I also wonder if you could advise me on what might suit me best.
I'll be using the car as a daily run about but only 16miles a day, I do however do long trips some weekends of 200 miles plus.  I roughly do 12-15k a year in my current touring.
I don't have any kids yet but they are on the agenda, I have a dog and go camping a lot and regularly fill the touring on trips.
I do like to be able to accelerate well but am also concious of MPG and running costs.
I'd like iphone connectivity and bluetooth phone connection is a must, as is sports spec.

I like the idea of a high ride (as currently the e46 touring is sat on it's a*se) in either the X3 or X5's.

At the moment I think I'm looking at around 2005 - 2006 X3's and X5's
Manual (I prefer them)
3.0 Diesel
It must have comms pack and sports seats etc.

With the info given what would you go for, X3 or X5?

Thanks for any advice.
Dan

[X5Sport]

Welcome.

You can dismiss any worries about swirl flaps on X5 (E53s anyway) as the diesels were never fitted with them.  Turbo failures do happen, as they can on any car, but it's still rare.  Not so rare as the mileages increase are auto transmission failures - a warranty is a must with even a late E53 X5 unless you have £2k spare to use rebuilding one.  And as you are already a bimmer owner you know how expensive spares can get.

Typical age related issues are worn suspension parts (rubbers usually), rubber CVJ gaiters, annoying electrical glitches, ageing batteries, brake parts, door locks, sunroof issues (another expensive fix), window regulators etc.  These are what you would expect on cars where even the youngest examples are now approaching 6 years old.  If you are any good mechanically then you can do a lot yourself, and the folks on here are always willing to offer sound advice, or even physical assistance if you're close enough to someone.

Manual gearboxes are very rare on the X5 and you may struggle to find one.  As it's in the 'Luxury Car' sector there was little demand.  How the X3 compares for manual availability I can't help you with.  Like you, I prefer a manual but the Dealer wanted a £10k deposit instead of a £1k deposit if I insisted on staying manual.

The build quality of the early X3 is not up to the usual BMW standards for build and materials - the cars were at that time assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria (now make the 1series & Mini Countryman variants) rather than Spartanburg SC in the US as the new versions (and all X5s) are.  Facelifted Mark 1 X3 is supposedly much better though.

If you want an X5 in it's E53 guise then get as new as you possibly can - you are looking for the later end anyway from your intro.    Don't dismiss the Comfort Seats though as they are very good (IMHO better than the Sports Seats and can be specced with Sport suspension.  There is a very good buyers guide for the X5 on here, but we have so few X3 members there isn't such a wealth of owner data to work with.

There are some really good examples of late cars in both ranges abut, but there are some real dogs disguised as good ones too.

Personally I would go for the X5 as it's an all round better car IMHO.  I ran one for 7 years from new.

Richard

[snipez999]

Coming from a tourer you would be better off opting for an X5 (IMO). 

[IvanG]

I agree with snipez999. I went from a 320d touring to X5 40d and haven't regretted it at all!

[Sanj]

[quote="bimmerdan"]
At the moment I'm just doing all the research into buying one and am wondering if people could let me know of anything to look out for (for example swirl flap failures, turbo problems etc) with either model whilst I try to decide what to purchase.
[/quote]

So, speaking about the E53 X5 which falls into the 2005/6 range. Assume you want the diesel as you talk about swirl flaps - none have been found to have them. Turbos and gearboxes are an issue as the cars get older and mileage goes up. Your late year choice is good, try to find a low miler to help with such failures. It is pot-luck though! Remember after 23rd March 2006 all late X5's will fall into the higher tax bracket!

[quote="bimmerdan"]
I also wonder if you could advise me on what might suit me best.
I'll be using the car as a daily run about but only 16miles a day, I do however do long trips some weekends of 200 miles plus.  I roughly do 12-15k a year in my current touring.
I don't have any kids yet but they are on the agenda, I have a dog and go camping a lot and regularly fill the touring on trips.
I do like to be able to accelerate well but am also concious of MPG and running costs.
I'd like iphone connectivity and bluetooth phone connection is a must, as is sports spec.
[/quote]

Better drive than X3 for being a more comfortable larger car, long journies 'should' be better, dog may not be able to get into the higher car??? Diesel is pllenty quick (a remap may help more so), running costs are expected to be high (it's a BMW)! Bluetooth is optional on them, look for the full comms pack WITH the telephone craddle under the centre armrest (familiarise yourself with the bluetooth pairing procedure and then try it on prospective cars to be sure)! iPod connectivity is possible through an Intravee...

[quote="bimmerdan"]
At the moment I think I'm looking at around 2005 - 2006 X3's and X5's
Manual (I prefer them)
3.0 Diesel
It must have comms pack and sports seats etc.
[/quote]

Manuals are very rare as X5Sports mentions, the Auto is a good box though. Comms includes most things but again look at the Options sticky and you'll find what was available as standard and what was extra (CD changer was optional in some Comms packs)! A Sports spec X5 should have fully electric memory seats (look for the 3 memory buttons on teh base). Comforts good for poor backs and old boys like X5Sport!

[quote="bimmerdan"]
With the info given what would you go for, X3 or X5?
[/quote]

Funnily enough... an X5.  )

[X5Sport]

[quote="Sanj"]
Comforts good for poor backs and old boys like X5Sport!
[/quote]
Grrrrrr.  It'll be your turn soon enough..... >:D. )

[Sanj]

LOL! Glad that got your attention!  )

[shadrack]

As above with tax bracket one thing I would say is unless you have a low milage car warrentys arnt worth a t#ss as when I looked into it for mine 92k when I got it the warrenty was £540, then because of the milage they only pay. 50% so on a gear box fail which costs say 2k to repair you've paid £1540 of the 2k bill?? So I would chance it, also I'm now into year 2 of ownership having spent only £200 including a service!  I also think a lot of it is forum hyp when you think of the number of cars on the road with the zf box in vs the number that fail its pretty small, also some thing to point out would be I own an x5 e53 and looked at x3s for my other half (havnt bought one) but the top end x3s are smart, more economical, nearly as spacious and far cheaper on the same age plate so would be worth considering I would think

[touring]

Currently I own both a 320d touring and a 40d X5, I have to say that I get better MPG from the X5 than my wife gets from the touring.

I would never go bak to a manual large car, you can use the sports auto in manual if you wish but an X5 is about enjoyment. I did have a V8 but at 14 to the gallon you used it sparingly. I looked at X3's but felt they were not in the same league as an X5 and not as goog as the touring. Drive both and I think that will make your mind up. if you are going to spend a lot of money go for a high spec - don't buy a car and regret you did not spend a little more and get what you want.

[shadrack]

[quote="touring"]
Currently I own both a 320d touring and a 40d X5, I have to say that I get better MPG from the X5 than my wife gets from the touring.

I would never go bak to a manual large car, you can use the sports auto in manual if you wish but an X5 is about enjoyment. I did have a V8 but at 14 to the gallon you used it sparingly. I looked at X3's but felt they were not in the same league as an X5 and not as goog as the touring. Drive both and I think that will make your mind up. if you are going to spend a lot of money go for a high spec - don't buy a car and regret you did not spend a little more and get what you want.
[/quote]
I agree drive them both! I just couldn't work out why I spent twice as much (on 55 x5 against 55 x3)and sacrifice 10mpg for not that much difference, also I woulnd ask her but I would wonder what your mrs is doing to that touring!! Lol

[amacman]

(The build quality of the early X3 is not up to the usual BMW standards for build and materials - the cars were at that time assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria (now make the 1series & Mini Countryman variants) rather than Spartanburg SC in the US as the new versions (and all X5s) are.  Facelifted Mark 1 X3 is supposedly much better though )  :noexpression:

  Sorry old chap but that is a popular mis--perception started by someone in the motoring press who must have been having a bad day at the time and usually quoted by people who have never taken the time to properly test an X3 .

As you may know , I have a 2002 X5 4.4i sport ( 22 mpg average ).  Mrs  has a 2004 X3  3.0 i SE auto 26 mpg average ).  Both owned for 5 years .

We have driven a 2004 X3 2.5i sport 6 speed manual but sport suspension on the pre LCI is best avoided .( 28 mpg average )
Have also driven a 2009 X3 2.0 d SE auto for a couple of days and found the power and comfort to be absolutely fine .( 32 mpg average ).

The X3 is more nimble and handles better than the X5 . The 3.0i straight six engine is much smoother than the 4.4i or any V8 engine .  The 2.0 diesel is a typical 4 pot diesel , a bit agricultural and just generally lacking any character or refinement . Have tried 5 series cars with 6 pot diesel and whilst an improvement on the 4 pot is still a diesel of strange character .
Reading X3 owners comments on various forums will reflect my comments . The build quality is fine . Plastic is plastic , nothing wrong with the X3 plastics .

My X5 has 75000 miles and has had a small fortune in repairs mostly under warranty and no major problems , just lots of smaller but still expensive items , mostly electrical . Needs something fixed frequently .

The X3 has over 80000 miles and has had 1 front caliper , ! engine breather valve and a replacement propshaft due to a failed universal joint which is an unusual failure . As reliable as any car we have owned .More reliable than any of the 5 BMW`s we have owned .
  I have to agree with everyones comments that the X5 is the preferred  car to drive and is certainly the more comfortable on very long journeys .
 

  Oh , nearly forgot to say , Magna Steyr also build the new , smaller Rolls Royce Ghost , must be ok at building cars .

[X5Sport]

[quote="amacman"]

(The build quality of the early X3 is not up to the usual BMW standards for build and materials - the cars were at that time assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria (now make the 1series & Mini Countryman variants) rather than Spartanburg SC in the US as the new versions (and all X5s) are.  Facelifted Mark 1 X3 is supposedly much better though )  :noexpression:

Sorry old chap but that is a popular mis--perception started by someone in the motoring press who must have been having a bad day at the time and usually quoted by people who have never taken the time to properly test an X3 .

Oh , nearly forgot to say , Magna Steyr also build the new , smaller Rolls Royce Ghost , must be ok at building cars [/quote]

With the greatest of respect, my comments have absolutely nothing to do with a motoring press view.  As a former Fleet Manager for a Government Dept, and responsible for development of our Technical Development & Solutions for our Special Vehicle Operations covert fleet operations and type assessments,  I know how to test cars for everyday use, what to look for, and how the price stacks up against what is available from the manufacturer.  I used to do a lot of vehicle testing, including time at Millbrook Proving Ground. 

I make my own assessments based upon what I see and feel, and the early X3 was not in my opinion up to the mark.  I looked at the X3 range very hard before deciding on the X5 and it didn't justify it's price tag at that time - 2004 - on fit, materials used, shut lines, paintwork and engines.  The interior looked and felt cheap, and the ride was no better than average.  I think at that time it was almost the same price (or close enough to make me think it was too dear for what was on offer) as an E53 X5 which was and still in my opinion is a much better car.

[amacman]

I had no idea you worked at the same department as " Q " .
So the X3 is not quite up to  007 standards for adding " toys " .
I have some experience in the " trade " myself .
The OP wants a family car for transporting a dog and camping gear but you never know , he might find Bear Grylles hitching a lift or perhaps MacGyver .
I don`t understand why you think the fit and finish , shut lines etc are any better on the X5 because I don`t see that with our cars or any other X5 or X3 . Sure the X5 cabin is a nicer place than the X3 but is nothing to do with the materials and more to do with design .
Myself  and many owners simply do not agree with all the negative comments people make about the X3 .
I agree with you on the price tag which only relates to the 6 cylinder engines on X5 and X3 when purchased new are close on cost . I would also chose an X5 .  Used X 5`s seem to hold more of their value which makes a case for purchasing the more reliable X3 used . A recent survey in Germany votes the X3 as the most reliable BMW .
 
I hope this thread is giving the OP some good insight for his choice .
Another plus point for the X3 is the lower access height to the boot for dogs and the single tailgate as the lower half of the X5 tailgate could be difficult .
The X3 apparently has a larger boot than the X5 .  The roof height is lower if you were loading a roofrack .

[X5Sport]

'Q'?  Nah, never met him (or her).... . Different Dept and we didn't talk to 'them'.  We had some pretty good toys too though.  I do miss those days sometimes.

Knowing my luck if we'd bought the X5 as a fleet car the ejector seat option would never have worked coz the blasted pano roof on the car would have broken at the critical moment..... ).  Instead we got Discos with disintegrating flywheels and chocolate transfer boxes - at least that's what they seemed to be made of.  HMG insisted we 'bought British' which whilst commendable was deeply frustrating.  Not that it stopped us testing everything else though....

Anyhoo, back on topic, I do indeed hope the comments help the OP to come to a conclusion as to what is best for him.  That's the good thing about this forum, open and honest debate and personal opinions....we say it as we see it....

[mikem]

We`ve had an `05 X3 (2.0d manual) and `06 X5 (3.0d auto).

I don`t think the plastics of the X3 are a million miles away from the X5`s its just that theres more of them. The doorcards on the X3 are almost entirely plastic with netting for door pockets on the pre LCi also the dashboard trims on the X5 help to break things up which the X3`s missing.

The boot is slightly narrower on the X3 (my X3 plastic boot liner has a ~3-4" space either side when it`s in the boot of the X5) but the X3 has more "height" inside the boot as the floor is lower.

The X5 is definately more refined on longer journeys (I wouldn`t say its like comparing a 3er to a 5er because the X3 feels more like somewhere between the 3er and 1er to me) but it feels like a big, heavy bus when you start pushing it. It understeers badly whereas the X3 feels more neutral and will even oversteer if you try hard enough.

I wouldn`t want the 3.0d with a manual in either, the clutch is heavy in traffic and you`d forever be changing from 1st to 2nd (been there with an E90 and the extra weight/higher gearing of the X`s would only magnify it).

I`m happy with the X5 (for the little I drive it myself) but if I had to choose again, I think I`d go for a loaded 3.0d auto X3 (or 35d) next time.