E39 535i - Trans Failsafe Prog

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:46 pm

Hi Guys,

Just looking for a little help on my old 2002 535i (brother now owns it).

It has come up with the message Trans Failsafe Prog. on the dash. I have had a drive and it goes through the gears when in Step mode fine, it reverses fine and it is driving as normal (i.e. not in limp mode).

The problem is when you kickdown, the engine revs up and then you get a Kick / Thump from the rear and it then goes. Can't really find the words to describe the symptoms better than that unfortunately.

Could this be weak battery which is confusing the ECU? Could it be a sensor? Could it be the Diff or Diff mounts? Torque Converter? or finally Gearbox (hope not).

Hopefully you experienced guys can offer me some advice or things to try to fix / diagnose the problem.

Many thanks,
Turks.

rjkc600 · Post by **rjkc600** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:44 pm

Id say Torque convertor or valve body related, although i am not an expert.

Why not call stephens engineering, they're up the road from you and have given me tech advice over the phone with my old 325i Auto. They're a well respected transmission specialist, I'm sure they'll give give you their thoughts without the 'we need to see it line'.

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:56 am

I have found them on Google I think but they aren't up the road from me...

I have booked it in with the dealers just to get the codes read and a possible diagnosis. If they come back with anything along the lines of 'needs a new gearbox / torque converter' I will be saying thank you and taking it to a Gearbox specialist.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Turks.

kkodal78 · Post by **kkodal78** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:43 am

It might be just low fluid level. It happened to my friends 530 and all it needed was topping up.

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:18 pm

Another update: I replaced the Battery with a Bosch Silver and fully charged it - this changed nothing and have therefore done some further tests.

Car drives absolutely fine when the Transmission Fluid is cold, after some heat is put through though from driving a couple of miles it starts to 'slip'. It feels like it is slipping and the revs go up then it bangs and goes like it has found friction.

I have had it at the dealers. They have run the diagnostics and everything is saying that it is slipping. They took a sample of the Oil and said that it wasn't bad and that they have seen worse. He said that the next step would be to remove the Gearbox and perform a recon which could cost up to £2,500.

I cannot see that a Gearbox that has done lazy miles on the motorway (110k) has failed - If that is the case on an item that is recommended by the manufacturer not to be maintained (lifetime oil) then I think it is very poor. You would expect at least 200k miles on a 5 Series Gearbox?!

What would be your advice? Torque Converter? Take it to a Gearbox Specialist? Pretty annoyed and frustrated that the dealers just say £2,500 so easily yet they have know idea what the problem is because the computer hasn't told them....

Turks.

shadrack · Post by **shadrack** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:26 pm

with what an 02 535i would be worth i wouldnt get it rebuilt at 2k+, i would take a chance on a cheap salvage part, arnt sure of the value exactly but my mate bought a 03 525d last year for 3k so im thinking it must only be worth that max ans therefor in that sticky area or to expensive to scrap/ too cheap to fix?? that is just my opinion though

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:01 am

I know the car is worth very little on the street, however, there is nothing that can beat it for the money - absolutely everything else about the car is working perfectly. It was one of the highest spec E39's I could find 6 years ago and you won't find much that will beat it now.

Its one of them situations where its not that my brother can't afford a new car, its just that he wanted to run this for another few years and save up a large lump for a property. Not only that, but I find it sad that these days we are very intolerant and the first signs of failure mean we just give up and scrap or get rid. This is a perfectly good car that still competes with cars of today no problem (and wins in most cases for comfort, spec and ability) - it might not make economic sense to some to spend cash on a car worth little but for me if you can spend a little to keep it going then it is better than outlaying another lump on a new car that depreciates the same.

I think I will look into locating a reputable Gearbox Specialist and see what they can do with it since I don't know if it is Gearbox or Torque Converter at this time and from the symptoms described i've not had anyone able to give their view on what the fault is.

Turks.

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:44 pm

Not sure if it's the same basic box, without the 4x4 bit on the back, but I had 'surging' on the E53 between 2nd-3rd & 3rd - 4th after it was rebuilt (following TC failure) and the repairer thought it might be to do with the overlap clutch timing. As it was still under warranty they swapped out the box and I never found out what was actually wrong, but it sounded like it was either one of the two clutches involved in each handoff of those changes was not sequencing correctly, or the valves weren't working in the right way so allowing the transmission to rev 'unloaded' before banging into gear. They had replaced all the clutches, TC, oil pump, filters and gaskets.

I then had a new Mechatronics Unit and Gearbox paid for Warranty Direct. All fixed - but it took a few tries.

BMW are not allowed to repair these boxes (as you no doubt know) and £2.5k is about the current rebuild cost without a Mech Unit. Mine was £2,200 in 2010 on a ZF6HP24 4x4 version. Add a Mech U and that was £1,200 on its own 'bare' from ZF - £3k from BMW!!

stevox5 · Post by **stevox5** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:46 pm

Your gearbox is to early to be mechatronic and has a separate ecu..

If you have had the level and oil quality checked it sounds like a rebuild is needed to me.

I would speak to a reputable gearbox specialist to confirm diagnosis and see what options they offer.the only other option is a second hand box but this may be of unknown condition also .

If you like the car and it's otherwise in nice nick I would repair it also .

Get it to a local transmission shop , good luck.

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:38 pm

Even thought 2.5k might be steep compared to the car's value, it is only a couple of months depreciation of a new car so in relation to that, I think it is worth a repair as well.

It is not always in relation to the value of the car, but in the overall cost of car ownership so I think repair is still cheaper than replacement.

shadrack · Post by **shadrack** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:03 pm

i dont mean dont repair just i would be tempted to chance a sub £500 or probly even less than £250 as e39 autos are pretty common in scrap yards, and chance it lasts a cuple of years. i know what your saying about not getting a car any better but to spend the cars value on a rebuild seems a little steep, also remember just say for example 2 months later the head gasket goes, you will be forever tied to any other huge bills that could arise as you will have so much money in the gearbox, if not find a manual e39 and take every part will be easily less than a £1000 and do away with your problem and also any future ones, its pretty easy i am doing the e30 cab as soon as i get a spare weekend!

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:35 am

The car is in great condition and as I said previous, it has practically every extra you could buy at the time. Absolutely fantastic car and I don't think i'll be letting my brother give up on it.

Really appreciate your feedback guys - I ranted on another thread about BMW Dealers before I saw your responses.

I am currently trying to locate a reputable Autobox Specailist that isn't going to have my pants down. I'm guessing around £1k - £1.5k to have the box overhauled? Its the ZF5HP24 box on the 535i.

Shadrack - your valuation on a car you don't know the spec of or condition is a little out. I won't be spending anywhere near the vehicles value on the repair. Like I said, it is a great car and everything else about it is 100% so to spend on getting the Gearbox sorted is a good investment. I agree with PVR that its only a few months depreciation on a newer car and if you say that I have spent well over £1k in tyres alone (on my X5) in the last 2 years then its not that bad. I think you have to look at it in personal value and economical life rather than what Glass's guide says it is worth. You should know - otherwise you wouldn't be pouring cash into an E30 Cab.

I'll get on with hunting for a good Autobox Specialist now.

Turks.

shadrack · Post by **shadrack** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:29 am

I know that if you find someone that will do it for 1k then yes but at 2.5k I would be having serios thaught, the e30 cab isn't getting money poured into it as parts are cheap, full manual gearbox conversion every piece £150, I also arnt saying its worthless, what I'm saying is if you were to spend 2k+ you will never see it again because of the % value of the car, like if get my e30 re sprayed I won't re coupe any of the cost but will have it looking mint, as above is a salvage item not an option? There's one on ebay £350 but I would email them and offer £250?

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:13 pm

When has anyone really seen a return on investment with a second hand car repair? You will never see the cash again with a repair like this but without it the car is practically worthless to the majority.

I have see the one for £350 on ebay but its not quite the right one - there is another but its about £450 however, its covered in Oil and gunk and you can never be sure of the condition. Also don't know if that includes the Torque Converter? Anyway I think id rather spend a bit more and have the peace of mind and Warranty on the work rather than take a russian roulette on a salvage gearbox... i'm all for an easy life and sometimes it costs more

Cheers,
Turks.

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:27 pm

I agree with that one.

I have only used once a second hand part for an old Audi for my father in law, and that was just trouble. The fitting company had issues with it, the parts dealer said that the fitter damaged it and it went back and forth with no resolution in the end.

With the double costs of sourcing the second hand part it became more expensive than a new replacement.

Lesson learned that unless you can do it yourself, I would not do it again.

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