Urgent advice please

Riggie · Post by **Riggie** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:25 pm

Hi all,

I posted in the newbies section, picked up my x last Fri. Need advice on a problem. I traded in a 530 d which has a CAP price of 3900 to 5400.

I was offered Â£5k in one garage and 4.7 in another. The dealer that I got the X from said he valued it at Â£7.5 k !

When I test drove the car, there was a brake judder through the steering when braking lightly from speed. This disappears on heavier braking. There was also slight wind noise from the top back corner of the nsf window.

I pointed these out to the salesman who said they would be looked at. Wen I collected the car, these had not been done, although I didn't discover that until 40 odd miles away. The dealer is 160 miles from my home.

I rung them straight away and they said they would get back to me. When I got home, I also noticed that the front tyres were scrubbing the outside edges slightly. I've looked online and it seems 4 wheel alignment is essential!

The dealer came back and told me to take it to my local dealer and ask them to look at the window seal. They asked me to 'monitor' the discs! I sent them an emaol stating that this was an AUC car and should not have gone out with these falts and I expected them to be corrected and that I reserved my rights to reject the car if they didn't.

Got a call from the used car manager who said they did not want to use my local dealer as they would be charged retail labour and parts rates, so said that I should take the car back to them for a full refund!

He said that this is based on maintaining their reputation and the BMW brand, and as a loyal customer of the brand, he didn't want me being unhappy.

I suggested that I could bring the car back to them for the work to be done and he said they would prefer to give me my money back.

I like the car and don't really want a refund as it took me a while to find the mileage and spec I wanted. I'm wondering if they cocked up onthe px value of mine and see an opportunity to get out of it. They even said they would meet my travel cost both ways.

Seems to me that if they will meet my costs to take it back, why wouldn't they put a new set of discs and pads and a window seal on it?

I'm not sure if I can demand a repair when they have offered a full refund, I'm thinking otherwise asking for some compensation so I can get it done locally. I used to be in the trade and can get Brembo discs and pats pretty cheap and fitting is easy. If I did that, would that invalidate the AUC warranty for the brakes?

What woukd you do?

Thanks

scooby1doo1 · Post by **scooby1doo1** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:35 pm

Depends what 530d you had miles spec reg, but sounds like they want it back bad to offer full refund with your expense paid for as well. What about lose of earnings @75 an hr.

Sorry cant offer any advise on been able to get it done locally.

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X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:43 pm

I think the rules under the Sale of Goods Act is that the seller has the right to choose to either offer to repair or refund. If they choose to refund then you have to accept it, or accept the goods in the condition they are currently in and repair at your own expense. Given they might (will?) cancel the AUC Warranty as a result, it could prove expensive.

If you have an AUC warranty then you have to abide by its terms or the Dealer has the right to revoke it. Brembo parts are not OEM so they would most likely walk away, or certainly not cover any brake issues.

It sounds to me like they know that if your car goes into another BMW Dealership then a lot of 'difficult' questions will arise and could cause them (thoroughly deserved by this account) embarrassment with BMW GB and might raise questions over their stewardship of an ongoing franchise. I'm beginning to wonder if the current financial situation isn't forcing some suppliers to cut corners and hope no one notices. In this instance this one has been caught out.

I do feel for you. You might want to contact your local Trading Standards Office for advice too. Sounds like a Dealer to avoid at all costs.

Sanj · Post by **Sanj** » Wed May 30, 2012 10:36 pm

And on the back of this advice, a call/letter to BMW GB???

Discs are cheap to repair and wind noise a doddle if it's the seal.

You know about the alignment.

Considering your trade-in value you'll still be up if you stick to OEM, total repairs at Â£250.

Keep the car and the AUC warranty and use this forum for anything else, you'll be fine.

Riggie · Post by **Riggie** » Wed May 30, 2012 11:06 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I spoke to Trading Standards and they said I had a right to a refund, but it seems that I dont have too much choice of refund or repair.

I appreciate that to maintain AUC warranty, it has to be serviced at a dealer and this would include the brke discs and pads. If I replaced them myself, would it just mean the discs would not be covered, or the whole warranty would be invalid?

I suspect that they cocked up on the px value for mine and may have found the idrive in the 530 which is on its way out (intrmittent fail to boot) and now have an opportunity to get out of the deal, which isn't good for them.

I'm 2.5 k up on the best px offer I had before, so maybe I'll use some of that to offset some new discs. I'm goint to get a 4 wheel alignment check done just to make sure that is the cause of the tyre scrub. I had just a normal tracking check done, but the tyre place said it needed a 4 wheel check and they couldn't do it.

I think I'll give BMW UK a call as well.

Thanks.

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:40 am

Sounds like a plan.......and if you don't tell anyone about the brakes, and if anyone asks....play dumb..

I think the OEM parts are either Pagit or Textar.....no doubt someone who has done it will know..

Raj · Post by **Raj** » Thu May 31, 2012 3:36 pm

Definitely keep the X as you are happy with the spec, etc and it's got the AUC warranty. To sort the issues isn't going to cost you the earth and you're still quids in.

Now the brakes. Brake discs and pads are not covered by the AUC warranty and will not invalidate the warranty due to having non oem discs/pads. Components directly related to the discs/pads (eg calipers) are covered but only as long it can't be proven that the aftermarket parts were the direct cause of the covered component failure.

I've modded all my cars and the dealer have happily replaced components under warranty still. I full BBKs on my M5 and they still replaced the brake servo due to failure as there was a tiny hole in it...

as the BBKs did not directly cause the fault they covered the failed component no problem.

So don't panic with the brakes and warranty...

Riggie · Post by **Riggie** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:10 am

Contacted BMW UK, they were sympathetic, but not much more than that. They did contact the dealer and suggest that common ground should be found.
The car sales manager was not budging on his 'bring it back and we'll give you a refund' line so I decided to hit him with the legal position. I am a lawyer, although contract and consumer issues aren't my area I know a bit, so I have told him my intentions. That was after explainng to him where we stood legally and that the ball was firmly in my court.

I have told him that if he doesn't do the repairs as per my statuory right, I will issue a small claims summons for the cost of the discs pads and window seal. I also told him that I would ensure that they would receive as much negative publicity as I could manage. I asked him if his company would want to travel all the way to my home town to defend a small claim of around Â£500?

He now wants me to put my position in writing. As a reasonable individual, I have said I am prepared to accept that they pay a patrial amount of the repair cost. If they do I'll then fit non OE kit at a significant saving.

I like taking on these individuals and companies who think they can just ride roughshod over their customers.

We'll see where we go with it. Had a 4 wheel alignment done at mates rates for Â£30. Both fronts and rears needed adjustment although the guy said that the settings being out would not cause the nsf scrubbing. He suggests that is fairly common due to roundabouts and the nsf tyre takin a bit of a hammering. All set up properly now.

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:08 am

Good for you........I would like to think I would have acted in a similar manner.

The potential legal recourse is two fold. Breach of Sale of Goods Act (S.O.G.A.), if not as described or defective and breach of contract if AUC warranty claims not honoured.

I appreciate you have had some input from trading standards albeit the critical aspect is whether the seller offering to take car back would negate any obligations under either the S.O.G.A. or the contracted warranty. It maybe worth speaking to a collegaue/partner who specialises in this sort of thing.........especially as the key issues needing attention would not normally result in rejection by a customer being proprtionate.

I appreciate the facts differ but I always admired the actions taken by this guy

if not already doing so then try to deal with DP or at least Cc him to any communication between yourself and the sales manager.

Riggie · Post by **Riggie** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:07 pm

I have been copying the DP into all emails. I sent another this morning outlining S48a of the Sale of Goods Act and stated that as a reasonable individual, I was prepared to accept 65% of the quoted repair cost and have it done locally, or take the car back to them for the jobs to be done, or if those options were not acceptable, I would issue Small Claims proceedings.

They've come back to me saying if I take the car back, they will do the repairs. I'm trying to be very reasonable with them and have said that as I have to go to London, the detour is not great so I will absorb the small additional travel cost and there would be no loss of earnings either.

Just waiting to book it in. I know that we're only talking about a relatively small amount but the reason I buy AUCs is that in my experience, they are very good and I'm not prepared to accept anything less from a dealer. It's a matter of principle.

I'll let you know the outcome, wnich should be new discs and pads and a window seal!

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:48 pm

I hope that they may have learned lessons about doing the job properly both for you and any future customers. I wonder how many others have been 'short changed' by this Dealer. Bit's not the first time I've come across AUC vehicles with problems - unless of course this Dealer was the same one.....

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:15 pm

Well played Sir

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:51 pm

A result then, well done.

It is the second time in a week that I have heard of BMW dealerships not being very accommodating.

Should we have a shame and name thread or is that liable-us?

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Riggie · Post by **Riggie** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:05 pm

The main defence to Libel is justification, in other words, telling the truth. My catalogue of email correspondence backs that up. If they fix the problems, I'll detail the events, including the name of the dealer and the fact that they will Have fixed it.(I hope) That will be the truth and give others a basis on whether they want to use the same dealer in the future.

Watch this space!

Riggie · Post by **Riggie** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:49 pm

Took the car back yesterday, new disc and pads fitted to the front and guess what, no more judder under high speed braking! They 'ordered he wrong window seal' so I will have to take it back again to get that done.

Before I left, I asked if I would receive some sort of formal notification of the AUC warranty coverage. Chap in the service dept checked on the computer and said there was no indication that it was covered. He spoke to the used car sales manager who informed him that as he had tnought I was giving them he car back, he had cancelled the warranty!

I stated in no uncertain terms, that it better be reinstated forthwith and I have received an email this morning from him to say that it was back on cover. i haven't checked with my local dealership yet, but will.

The dealer, Snows of Portsmouth, has been extremely unhelpful, altough they have replaced he brakes. If I was cynical, I would think that the window seal omission was done purposely, as they know I live 160 miles from them and taking it back again will be a major hassle.

I really like the car, but my experience with them has taken the gloss off the whole experience. I would certainly not use them again and I will be outlining my experience in a letter to their DP and the MD of BMW UK, although they dont really give a toss either.

It's a bad day when the customer has to threaten legal proceedings to get a main dealer to comply with their responsibility, but having read various posts on the web, I'm not alone.

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