how real are the gearbox problems?

[gadgetJunky72]

Hi Folks,

ok. so i'm used to forum scaremongering and how in reality the likelyhood of these failures actually materialising is very small (my 997 engine is about to blow up any minute).

i've been reading a few posts about the X5 gearbox failing. are there any tell tale signs? I only ask because the 'box on my 2005 3.0d feels quite clunky especially the last change down to 1st when i'm coming to a stop.

its been a while since i've driven an auto so maybe that's just how they are.

[phill]

Try this

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1402&p=15261&hilit=SOFT+RESET#p15261

Phill

[gadgetJunky72]

thanks phill. i was wondering if there was such a thing. i'll give it a try on the way home tonight. fingers crossed.

[X5Sport]

It should only change down to 2nd when stopping as 1st is normally only used in either Sport or Manual mode. Try the soft reset, but there was also a gearbox mechatronics module (gearbox brain at the bottom of the 6sp transmission, in the engine bay on the 5sp)) firmware upgrade done. If the reset doesn't work, find an Indy or Dealer to get yours checked to see if you have the later version installed. You do need to allow a couple of weeks of driving to allow the adaption system to 'relearn' your style though, so don't expect an immediate improvement after the reset.

Sometimes the way you stop can upset the transmission release. If I kept a steady braking force on then mine could be clunky, but if I started to ease the brake pressure just as the car was stopping the clunk vanished. Not sure what causes it or why it made a difference, but as autos don't provide much in the way of engine braking when compared to a manual, it might be the way the clutches and brake bands hold the gears. Sometimes I think these things are trying to be too clever!!

[n1k85]

I'm relatively new to the X5 myself, and from what I understand the Pre-facelift 5 Speed Boxes are more prone to failure than the 6 Speed Facelift, although I have read a number of threads where people with the Facelift 6 Speed have also encountered failure.

The only thing I will say is that when I was looking at buying an X5 (Pre-Facelift originally) the number of cars for sale that had something along the lines of "Gearbox just replaced - £2000" was shocking.

It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that 8 out of every 10 Pre-facelift cars I saw for sale mentioned that the gearbox had been replaced. This is why I originally only wanted a Manual.

Even the other day on here, a guy mentioned he was looking at doing a trip abroad. I mentioned the gearbox and he replied that his had already gone and been replaced. It really seems like a question of 'when' rather than 'if' to me.

Like you I have seen many many 'scaremongering' internet threads warning that my VX220 was about to suffer camchain failure any minute, or the swirl flaps on my 320CD were definitely going to kill my engine, and loads more like that. I usually take them with a pinch of salt, but it's hard to ignore the problem when I have 'first hand' seen the vast number of cars that have suffered Gearbox failure.

As above, it seems to certainly be improved on the facelift cars, but certainly not bullet proof. Although I have seen a number of Facelift cars with over 160k for sale that have no mention of gearbox failure.

Mine is on 120k and I must admit I'm worried about the box going. Even though at the moment it feels pretty good.

I will probably get the gearbox oil changed at some point, but it's hard to find someone that will actually do it (properly) for a decent price

[X5Sport]

Mine was a ZF 6sp box and failed at a mere 41800 miles - the bill was just over £2200 to rebuild it. Mine was just bad luck and there was no warning at all. Given the number actually built, it is still rare at low mileage but as with anything as they age they wear and the chance of failure increases. There are far more about that have never had an issue than have failed, especially when you consider how many different BMWs use the same box, or a variant of it.. The key thing is you know about it and hopefully have prepared to be hit by it should the worst happen. But it may not happen during your ownership and you'll be just fine. Changing the oil is open to huge (and occasionally heated) debate as it's efficacy in improving the life of the box, or just cleaning out the crud that was actually keeping the thing going. All I can say is that from discussion with my own Dealer, Lifetime Oil means the 'usable life' of the vehicle - which he put at around 6 years at average mileage. I wasn't comforted and told him that almost felt to me like a bit of miss-selling by the manufacturer, but then BMW can freely decide the 'lifetime' of their products - it would just be nice if the were more public about it!!. I put it into the similar pile as the 'unlimited broadband package' which actually isn't. Unlimited means just that - without limits!!

The only comfort I can give you is that it isn't just BMWs fitted with Auto's that fail, many other cars suffer similar problems. The ZF box was updated for the E70 X5 and has now been replaced by the all new (in 2010) ZF 8sp box (there is no manual option at all). As to their longevity, who knows.

I wanted a manual version when I specced the car in June 2004, but the Dealer simply said that if I insisted on a manual then the deposit rose from £1k to £10k as they would be unlikely to be able to sell it if I pulled out. Having run a fleet of manual Land Rover Disco TD4/TD5 vehicles which suffered no end of transmission issues, I can see why he was nervous. Punters looking for luxury cars simply don't want to have to change gear manually!!

[pvr]

I just sold my E53 X5 3.0d with 82k on the clock, and the gearbox was one of the reasons I was selling as I felt like I was pushing my luck.

I have spent about £1500 in all of my 6.5 years of ownership, that is for all servicing and extending the warranty for 2 years.

For no reason than my piece of mind, I jumped ship before a turbo or gearbox was going (which it might never do of course), but rather than pile up the cost being a large proportion of the value of the car, I thought it was time to make the change.

If I had never been part of a forum, I would never have done this as my dealer was claiming that they had never heard of any gearbox going ...

[X5Sport]

[quote=""pvr""]If I had never been part of a forum, I would never have done this as my dealer was claiming that they had never heard of any gearbox going ...[/quote]

Pinnochio Motors Inc by any chance?

[pvr]

Well, you used to be local to me, so you know then

[jaynana]

one thing about these boxes in particular is the 'lifetime oil' claim.

in most other auto cars i've seen the capability to change gearbox oil, but not on the E53, and the claim is is that its oiled for life?

oil may be long life but i think any claim that its for life is rubbish in terms of engineering or simple physics!

so a good precaution might be, to get the gear oil changed, although the car's service doesn't ever suggest it? having said that i'm no expert and not even sure if that should prolong gearbox life, more knowledgeable ppl can educate us i guess

[gadgetJunky72]

the soft reset didn't help much.

i'm off to see Jason at BW Chiptune to get the gearbox firmware looked at and i think a gearbox oil change is probably a good preventative idea.

[X5Sport]

[quote=""jaynana""]one thing about these boxes in particular is the 'lifetime oil' claim.

in most other auto cars i've seen the capability to change gearbox oil, but not on the E53, and the claim is is that its oiled for life?

oil may be long life but i think any claim that its for life is rubbish in terms of engineering or simple physics!

so a good precaution might be, to get the gear oil changed, although the car's service doesn't ever suggest it? having said that i'm no expert and not even sure if that should prolong gearbox life, more knowledgeable ppl can educate us i guess [/quote]

Sealed for Life refers to the manufacturers definition of the 'useful life of the vehicle'. It is this issue that I referred to in my earlier response. I have seen reference to the oil and filter being replaced now at 60,000 miles by Dealers as this is the 'lifetime' of the oil. I've been trying to find where I read it. It seems more and more folks are questioning just what BMW and ZF really mean by their use of the term 'Sealed for Life', or 'Lifetime Oil'. In the US a class action has been started, but in the UK there is still a spirit of denial from BMW GB. This is probably because they (a) don't fix but only replace the transmission - with a rebuilt one please note - and (b) want £7k to do it. Owners not unsurprisingly laugh at them and get the box fixed for less than 1/3rd of that cost. The company that rebuilt mine had a yard full of cars awaiting rebuilt boxes, and there were a number of BMWs amongst them, but there were a lot of other manufacturers too. There does not seem to be a common failure mode though, and this may be part of the problem. The engineer in me says the boxes are overly complex and under-specified for component strength. A one size fits all approach may reduce the costs, but may lead to inherent weaknesses. The same 6sp box is used across the BMW Range with changes to the torque converter and shift program typically being the largest changes between the types - apart from the two/four wheel drive mods.

An adaption reset will take days to show up any real changes. When mine was last done, I was told to drive the car for a couple of weeks before the repairer would look at it again whilst the system relearned.

Here's a question though - does the E83 X3 suffer as badly? It's the same box after all.

Jason should be able to help/advise though..

[n1k85]

[quote=""gadgetJunky72""]the soft reset didn't help much.

i'm off to see Jason at BW Chiptune to get the gearbox firmware looked at and i think a gearbox oil change is probably a good preventative idea.[/quote]

Sounds a good idea, How much does jason charge for both these?

I asked my local BMW dealership about a firmware upgrade and they couldn't have been less interested. She just asked "why...have you got a problem with it?" and when I replied "No, but i'd like the latest firmware" I was told they can't do it, and it would be pointless...

I am still very keen to get this done, as well as oil change.

On a slightly different note, I always wondered if/when the gearbox does 'go', is it a Flatbed recovery Job?, or are they generally still drivable to a certain extent...

But I just came across this Pre-facelift with gearbox failure, and they say it still drives perfectly in 3rd gear, just won't change up or down. "drive away"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-X5-4-4i-S ... 1389wt_983

Of course each case of failure may be slightly different, but is this generally the case (i.e you can at least drive it back home) or was this some sort of one off gearbox miracle?

[X5Sport]

Flatbed Recovery.

When mine failed I had almost no drive and the car had to be winched onto the trailer. Their were no warning lights, just no ability to get the gears to change, oh snd it made a nasty rattling noise when started the next morning. The Dealer said do not drive it any further - it had done 15 miles but that destroyed the TC, Oil Pump, B and C clutches and one Brake Band. The whole box was rebuilt, then replaced as the casing was damaged and the shift pattern would not operate correctly. The failure was a plastic part in the torque converter. Warranty Direct paid the bill.

[thedweeb]

Mine started to fail over a few months, I then decided to replace the box before it left me or the misses and kids stranded. All in all with the TC it cost me 2k...... not happy.. this is the third box the truck has had in its life.