Insurance Help (Sorry)

[Dan1502]

Just been reading up on policy definitions etc and I don't know whether it's just me but I've not thought the whole NCB protection thing through properly and now that I have I find it pretty impossible to quantify the benefit.

What it seems to mean in most cases is that if you had a clean record then had a claim, when you come to renew you would get the full no claims discount but the premium to which this applies would the premium for someone with a recent accident (ie much higher than before).

So the benefit of protection would depend on how competitive or not the company is for people with recent claims and so may possibly be of little or no benefit at all. I might just run a comparison quote in a false name with a recent accident to see what impact it would have and gauge the value or otherwise of these options. I wish this wasn't so complicated!!

[gobiman]

Always thought the term "protected" is a bit of a misnomer.
Yes, it keeps you theoretically on the level or years you have built up (worth having!) but you still have your claim (which is disclosable if you change policy) and this will push your premium up dramatically.
It does not "protect" you from the effects of a claim which many people seem to think.
With this in mind,I always go for the maximum excess provided it gives a good premium reduction and for any damage less than say £1,500 (assuming a typical £750 premium) I would be inclined to pay for repairs myself.
Many people assume having a "protected" NCB and a low excess will somehow allow them to claim for pretty much anything and often with no effect on premiums. It doesn't work like that.

[Dan1502]

At least I know now. I'd not really thought it through to this extent before. I presume your protection is only valid for that current insurer too in that if you move to a different company following a claim your no claims discount would be back to zero?

If this is the case then a very important factor is the current (or prospective) insurer's attitude to those who have had claims. On that note I just did a requote with admiral with a fictitious claim last year for £10,000 and me at fault. I will probably do the same with BMW insurance. I guess to get a true picture I'd have to do others with two or more claims and other scenarios but that's just not really practical.

When comparing the total cost of the two car admiral policy and the total cost of BMW insurance and the current insurer for the other car the cost will be about the same. It will then come down to the benefit of g'teed NCB with Admiral vs genuine BMW parts with BMW. I might just flick a coin!

[gobiman]

No - your NCB is valid with another insurer- that is the "value" of the protection. I think it is done on years with 5 being about 65% "discount" on the theoretical starting premium. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
However , they always ask for your actual claims so that will then go into the calculation.
If you don't have a protected NCB, the net effect is that you will suffer a "double whammy" - your starting point will be much higher + a claim.
Don't know the mathematical relationship between the two (ie is it double the effect or 1.25 say compared to protected NCB) but the "protection" is certainly worth something.

[Dan1502]

Protecting against a 'double whammy' is how I'd summarised it in my mind but I hadn't realised the protection is transferrable to another insurer, especially as different insurers seem to have different definitions of protection. The definitions applying to Admiral and BMW seem to be the same for protected with Admiral also offering a guaranteed option whereas esure (the insurer of our other car) defines it as "For an additional premium this protects your no claim discount for the life of your
policy, regardless of the number of claims you have" (they only have one option). I'm just not sure how it could be transferrable but would be happy to be wrong. I think I'd better check this out properly before deciding.

[X5Sport]

NCD is based on the number of years, and hence discount, and is transferrable from company to company. If your NCD is say 65% earned value whether protected or not then that is the transferrable 'value' for which a new insurer will have to credit you at their equivalent value. If Insurer A has given you say 65% (or 5 years) then Insurer B is supposed to offer you their equivalent discount for their policies, assuming like for like. The confusion comes in where a like for like policy match is not possible, but I have never come across that with any of the changes I have made, and I used to change insurers every year.

I have never used a broker or comparison site other than as a basis to start from, as both are taking their cut and therefore adding their costs to the overall policy cost. As far as I can tell, none of the 'direct' insurers are on them anyway.

One way of reducing policy costs is to look at your voluntary excess and extras. If you don't need a courtesy car, physio cover, legal cover, or any of the other 'extras' then that can make a difference, sometimes a big difference. Increasing your voluntary excess should make a difference too. You're taking a gamble and must be prepared to take a hit should the worst happen, and you can always hedge it by putting the money in the Bank

[Dan1502]

I tend to take the same approach regarding comparison sites and always try a few companies direct (those I've found on the comparison site and otherwise) and also some brokers. For a number of years I have been with NIG through brokers at much better rates than comparison sites but am told they've pulled out of the market. I also look to remove unwanted options and also play around with excesses. With BMW Insurance increasing the excess has little effect on the premium whereas with others it's much greater.

The problem is the protection/guarantee of NCD and transferrability. There is a lot of conflicting advice about on this. Read this for example: http://www.matthewsguide.co.uk/LIN/no_c ... scount.php. I've also seen quite a few insureres sites that say words to the effect of so long as you remain with us.... Some sources suggest they're not transferrable whereas others say they are. There is a lot of commentary (and misunderstanding) around the issue of whether or not your premiums would increase (over and above increases in rates in general) after a claim when you have protected or guaranteed NCD. Although not explaining it properly most insurers sites seem to suggest increases may (and probably will) happen as discussed above but I also read this which says Aviva guarantee your premium won't increase as a result of claims: http://www.aviva.co.uk/car/renewal/benefits.html

I'm trying to find a reliable source of information on this before resorting to asking the companies I'm considering directly. It angers me that this isn't clear and that it's taking me so much time to understand/research. It's also a shame the BMW insurance doesn't include guaranteed NCD as it would then be a clear winner as I don't really like the thought that recycled (second hand?) parts could be used to repair it in the event of an accident.

This is quite helpful regarding why premiums can still go up despite having protected NCB but doesn't mention transferrability: http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/g ... -explained

[Turks]

Mine was £604 fully comp with protected NCB - 27 years old with my 25 year old missus on the policy. 4.8is parked on the street.

This was with Bell (Admiral Group) who I have been with for the last 3 years...


Turks.

[Dan1502]

Well I have decided to go with BMW Insurance in the end. The premium is £903.59. I selected some options that I value (PNCD, Contents, Legal) and declined others that I've yet to use (foreign travel, driving other cars, upgraded hire car, trailer and roofbox cover etc).

I like that BMW parts would be used in the event of an accident and other things are nice such as no admin charges for adjustments, refunds part way through a year etc. The policy wording also looks pretty good with only the exclusions you would expect.

I asked for clarification re protected NCD and though they don't do g'teed I asked about it anyway. Basically their protected is such that one fault claim would have no effect, two would reduce your years to three. But If you have one fault claim then are claim free at the next renewal you will still have full protected no claims from then on so unless we have two fault claims in a year then all is well.

Regarding transferrability, they said they could only speak for themselves but they would go off what is on the NCD certificate from the insurer so you would still declare all claims but the number of years would be as per the certificate and you should still have the option to protect this. Apparently this can vary with different insurers. This has already been said but my searching found loads of conflicting answers. In the end I went with BMW due to the quality of the policy, it being slightly cheaper than the next best options (dual car policy with Admirla or possibly esure who our other car is with) and the girl on the phone was probably the most helpful and patient person I've spoken to from an insurance company. They've also made a note of my winter wheels.

Thanks to everyone who posted. My understanding is now much clearer. Time to forget about insurance and enjoy the weekend!