Another steering wobble (sorry)

[PhilT]

Sorry to add to the numerous posts on this topic but I've had the infamous steering wheel wobble under braking from around 60mph for ages now and just can't seem to resolve it.

I've changed the thrust arm bushes, lower ball joints and tension struts/control arms (whatever the correct names for them all are) numbers 6,7, 10 & 15 in the much used diagram. None of this resolved the problem so I figured it must be a warped disc.

Last week I put Pagid discs & pads on the front and yet again it made absolutely no difference so I took it up to my local indy (B&M in Pudsey, Leeds) for advice. They told me it would be a warped disc and when I said I'd just replaced them they reckoned it was likely to be because I used Pagid and not OEM discs & pads - apparently 'cheaper' discs warp really easily!? To be fair he did say he'd need to book it in to be sure but was pretty confident that OEM discs & pads would solve it.

I'm struggling to get my head around this as its not like the Pagid discs solved the problem for an hour until they warped, but after replacing all possible culprits (bushes, arms & brakes) I'm now lost.

If anyone has any further suggestions, or experience of new discs warping in minutes I'd really appreciate hearing them cos I'm out of ideas.

[X5Sport]

I thought the OEM's were something like Pagid?

You haven't got a bent, dinged wheel have you? Or even one out of balance? It's not comletely unknown for the steering to absorb some balance wobble which the brakes then show up and exacerbate. Are your wheel bearing play amounts OK? Not too much movement in the wheel itself if you jack it up and gently wobble it while holding it top and bottom? (Safety Note - make sure the body is properly secure before you stick a paw under a wheel and then shake things!)

[JimmySpeed]

Hmmm, seized caliper has caused this on a few cars on Xoutpost apparently. Not too hard for a mech to diagnose.

Pagid is an OE supplier - I wouldn't doubt their stuff. Also, as you say if it didn't change anything at all for even a brief period of time after doing the brakes, then it stands to reason that its not the brakes (unless you immediately warped the same side disc in exactly the same way after fitting?) Did you do front and rear brakes?

What about tie rod ends? Wheel bearings? Steering rack or universal joint? Again a good Indy should be able to find out if any of those are bad.

It is possible that its back wheel related but in that case you would feel it in your seat and not the steering wheel so much.

If you were to say that the problem changed slightly after doing a certain thing, then it would suggest that thing should be re-visited. If you say that it never changes regardless of all the things you did then it points at something else being the problem.

[JimmySpeed]

[quote=""X5Sport""]
You haven't got a bent, dinged wheel have you? Or even one out of balance? [/quote]

Another culprit!

Do you have a spare that you can swap onto each corner to see if its a particular wheel at fault?

[bazzyboy]

if you bought the pagid from euro car parts chances are they are pagids cheap range as this is what euro sell in the uk
buy ate or bosch or delphi brake discs and you problem will be solved

always avoid harsh braking for the first 250 miles to bed the brakes in

hope this helps

[JimmySpeed]

[quote=""bazzyboy""]if you bought the pagid from euro car parts chances are they are pagids cheap range as this is what euro sell in the uk
buy ate or bosch or delphi brake discs and you problem will be solved

always avoid harsh braking for the first 250 miles to bed the brakes in

hope this helps[/quote]

Even if they were the "cheap" stuff, he should have at least not had the problem the first couple of times he braked after fitting them...

[thedweeb]

I would check the calipers again to ensure the slidders are not seized.

[scooby1doo1]

to check for a sticking caliper just go out and do some braking, no need to do any harsh stuff. If one wheel is hotter then you have found your problem wheel, or if one wheel as got more brake dust on than the other this all so points to the problem wheel.

But if the problem was they as you say, then i don't think its a capiler problem.

good luck

[x555]

Have you had the wheel balancing checked??? sounds daft but you could get a wheel wobble from just losing a wieght or two from pressure washing the wheels
HTH

[PhilT]

Thanks for all the replies everyone - great help and information as always.

To update, I've just tried the spare on both front sides and it made no difference so I guess I can rule out wheel balancing or a bust alloy. I also checked the heat of the alloys and that seems OK so I'll tick off seized caliper too.

I may have some light at the end of the tunnel though - while I had it jacked up checking for wheel bearing movement I noticed quite a bit of movement when holding at quarter to 3 and rocking the wheel. I got someone else to wiggle the wheel while I looked underneath and there's movement where the control arm/wishbone (item no 10) bolts onto the chassis - this only occurs on one side, the other seems pretty solid so I'm guessing there shouldn't be any movement.

So, despite these being the first thing I had replaced (albeit 12 months ago) it looks like one may have gone already - maybe due to it taking extra strain from worn thrust arm bushes?

Does my conclusion sound reasonable as to this maybe being the culprit?

[JimmySpeed]

[quote=""PhilT""]

Does my conclusion sound reasonable as to this maybe being the culprit?[/quote]

Certainly does - number 10 should be rock solid. The thrust arms can be made to move a tiny bit if you actually grab the arm and wiggle it hard, but number 10 should be firm. I'm of the opinion that if its got more play than the other side, then it needs changing. I would do both sides I think, to be safe.

How many miles you done since they were changed last?

[PhilT]

Yeah, there's definitely more play in the drivers side, the passenger side seems solid. The ball joint end looks OK, the movement is in the chassis end (bush number 11).

I reckon it's only about 10-12k since I had them done. They were the first bit I had done and it resolved the wobble, then when it came back recently I just assumed it was the thrust arms and ball joint that had gone - never thinking the new bits could have failed. Then when this didn't fix it I went down the new disc & pads route, and ended up where I am today. Maybe a lot of needless replacement I guess but at 93k it won't have done any harm I suppose.

[JimmySpeed]

Yeah, I think thats your culprit - as you say overlooked because its natural to think that new parts won't fail. BMW bushes if sourced from the wrong places can go after 10k, sometimes less - 1 American had some ebay stuff that he had to change after 4k I believe!

I believe in a bit of diagnosis before just blindly spending, and this is why. You wouldn't want to chuck away new brakes for another (expensive) set and still have the same problem would you, but it had been recommended that you do exactly that by a garage! Now you will change a £70 arm (or 2) which blatantly needs doing anyway, and if the problem persists, then you look elsewhere, but at least you can see the failure in this part for yourself which will make changing it justified in your own mind.

[PhilT]

Thanks mate, the thrust arm bushes were split and needed doing anyway so it's only last weeks discs & pads that weren't really needed - but hey, you live and learn. Just glad I didn't go along with the indy yesterday and throw £350 at him to fit a set of OEM discs & pads to replace a perfectly good set of week old Pagids!

Hopefully wishbones will solve it.
Thanks again

[JimmySpeed]

keep us updated - i'd be interested to hear if it is the bush (I'm pretty convinced it is)