Clocks forward half an hour and then leave them alone

[Powercat]

As I have seen this subject discussed on other forums so I thought I would post it here,
also I have been in the lounge
if enough people talk about it maybe one day we can leave the clocks alone,
people power

[StumpyPete]

Nope. Totally disagree, it's already 09:30 before it gets light up here in December. I advocate a hybrid where we only put the clocks back from November 21st ish to Jan 25th. The arguments being put forward by those in the south totally disregard the practicalities of living in the North and also totally disregard the reality of geography. The south gets all of the benefit with nothing to gain in the North. It is often dark by 15:30 up here in Dec/Jan. So expanding that to 16:30 would have no noticeable effect when you consider it would be dark until 10:30 in the morning - any "ecological" gains simply would not be obtained.

[pvr]

But it works ok for those even more north like Sweden / Norway etc?

From what I generally hear, people tend to appreciate light later in the day rather then in the morning. Guess it is something to look forward to.

Obviously having been brought up in a northern country, it is "normal" to me so I guess anyone would get used to it.

[sp3ctre]

I live north(ish) and I 99% of people can't wait for the extra light in the evenings, and everyone complains when the clocks go back. At the end of the day (no pun intended) most people work, so their recreational time is >5pm, hence they appreciate extra light when they can make use of it.

[StumpyPete]

@PVR; you are ignoring the fact that Norway and Sweden are East of the UK. You also need to remember that the vast majoirty of the population in those countries are on similar latitudes to Scotland. They still put their clocks forward and back. As would we if we moved to CET. In addition we are not the only country in Europe not on CET, Portugal and Ireland are also (i.e. the countries in the west of Europe). It is a simple fact of Geography. You also need to consider that as you go south the number of available hours in a day increase between September and March; so the countries directly south of the UK already have the benefit of more light so France and Spain can cope with CET as it is not as acute a problem as it is at higher latitudes.

@sp3ctre; Recreation >5pm is irrelevant when in Scotland under the new proposal it would still be dark at 16:30. I also resent the fact that the recreation argument is being put forward by those in favour of this, what should be the primary consideration is the safety and wellbeing of people, followed by the economic arguments. This proposal increases the risk for those living in the North (particularly children) and therefore means that consequentially the proposers indirectly imply that lives in the south have a higher value than those in the North.

The problem only really exists up here in December and January (there is more than enough light in November & February), which is why I suggest a shorter period of winter time; that I believe offers the best overall compromise between the safety of all, economic benefits and the softer benefits (e.g. recreation).

[bullethead]

Perhaps the Southern Softies don't care what goes on up in the colonies

[Powercat]

If you're really unhappy with the current situation then is 30 minutes going to make that much difference,
you still wouldn't be happy but at least you wouldn't have to change the clocks twice a year

[StumpyPete]

[quote=""bullethead""]Perhaps the Southern Softies don't care what goes on up in the colonies [/quote]

You put my point of view so much more eloquently

[pvr]

Pah, I think the Scots are only concerned that they are going to lose out of 30 minutes worth of development aid from the South

[bullethead]

Gotta be better if it's darker longer...Stop all the gingers frying like vampires.

[sp3ctre]

[quote=""StumpyPete""]@sp3ctre; Recreation >5pm is irrelevant when in Scotland under the new proposal it would still be dark at 16:30. I also resent the fact that the recreation argument is being put forward by those in favour of this, what should be the primary consideration is the safety and wellbeing of people, followed by the economic arguments. This proposal increases the risk for those living in the North (particularly children) and therefore means that consequentially the proposers indirectly imply that lives in the south have a higher value than those in the North.[/quote]

Oh for crying out loud, don't bring on the "children are in danger" argument... that's about as weak as the people arguing for lower speed limits saying "you can't put a price on a life". If it's seriously that bad up in Scotland, as far as I'm concerned you could have whatever time zone you like, as long as the rest of Britain doesn't have to put up with it!

[StumpyPete]

[quote=""sp3ctre""][quote=""StumpyPete""]@sp3ctre; Recreation >5pm is irrelevant when in Scotland under the new proposal it would still be dark at 16:30. I also resent the fact that the recreation argument is being put forward by those in favour of this, what should be the primary consideration is the safety and wellbeing of people, followed by the economic arguments. This proposal increases the risk for those living in the North (particularly children) and therefore means that consequentially the proposers indirectly imply that lives in the south have a higher value than those in the North.[/quote]

Oh for crying out loud, don't bring on the "children are in danger" argument... that's about as weak as the people arguing for lower speed limits saying "you can't put a price on a life". If it's seriously that bad up in Scotland, as far as I'm concerned you could have whatever time zone you like, as long as the rest of Britain doesn't have to put up with it![/quote]

I'm afraid it is you putting forward the weak argument - additional recreation time is a very minor point to make, and seems to me like a campaign trying desperately to get a reason to convince the population, whilst ignoring the geographical facts of our island. The problem with the safety aspect is that no-one really knows. In the last experiment there was actually a drop in casualties, but there was very little analysis done into the detailed statistics to understand what the region by region effect was because the experiment was universally hated by the whole of the UK. The stats were also distorted by the introduction of the breathalyser at the same time, so no-one knows for certain what the safety impact is.

The point which most people have ignored in this as well is that clocks would still go forward and back in spring in autumn, so we would still have the issue of having to get up an hour early in the spring (which is most people's bugbear!).

Personally I couldn't care less what time the English have but you should not be able to force an unwanted solution on the North. Perhaps it is time for the English to have independence.

P.S. it's not just Scotland; N.Ireland has the same problem.

[sp3ctre]

[quote=""StumpyPete""]The problem with the safety aspect is that no-one really knows. [/quote]

Couldn't have said it better myself

[quote=""StumpyPete""]
The point which most people have ignored in this as well is that clocks would still go forward and back in spring in autumn, so we would still have the issue of having to get up an hour early in the spring (which is most people's bugbear!).[/quote]

Really?...most people I speak to hate it when the clocks go back and much prefer the extra daylight hours in the evening. Personally I am enjoying the fact that I get home from work in the light at this time of year

[quote=""StumpyPete""]
Personally I couldn't care less what time the English have but you should not be able to force an unwanted solution on the North. Perhaps it is time for the English to have independence.

P.S. it's not just Scotland; N.Ireland has the same problem.[/quote]

Bring it on, I would happily go for that, although I am still not convinced it's an "unwanted solution". I think (again, IMO) that if it were to be put to a national vote whether we fix to GMT or BST that BST would get the vote, although we would have to wait and see.

[bullethead]

[quote=""StumpyPete""][quote=""sp3ctre""][quote=""StumpyPete""]@sp3ctre; Recreation >5pm is irrelevant when in Scotland under the new proposal it would still be dark at 16:30. I also resent the fact that the recreation argument is being put forward by those in favour of this, what should be the primary consideration is the safety and wellbeing of people, followed by the economic arguments. This proposal increases the risk for those living in the North (particularly children) and therefore means that consequentially the proposers indirectly imply that lives in the south have a higher value than those in the North.[/quote]

Oh for crying out loud, don't bring on the "children are in danger" argument... that's about as weak as the people arguing for lower speed limits saying "you can't put a price on a life". If it's seriously that bad up in Scotland, as far as I'm concerned you could have whatever time zone you like, as long as the rest of Britain doesn't have to put up with it![/quote]



Personally I couldn't care less what time the English have but you should not be able to force an unwanted solution on the North. Perhaps it is time for the English to have independence.

P.S. it's not just Scotland; N.Ireland has the same problem.[/quote]
Thats why we have the colonies....So we can tell you what to do