Automatic transmission chat

[Themoog2]

Ok I'm going to chat about my 5 speed transmission...
When i bought the car 5 yrs ago it shuddered between gears and skipped when cruising at circa 50mph.
I drained the fluid twice and put a new filter in it and its been fine ever since - smooth changing etc.
The fluid I put in was Comma multi vehicle atf plus and this was recommended to me by Comma themselves.
A couple of years ago after a long run when parking I noticed a knocking noise coming from the bellhousing area. It's been doing this ever since and has not got any worse. I've had my stethoscope on it and it's definitely either the TC or trans pump (or that area anyway).
Ive also taken it to two specialists and both said it was normal for the mileage (?). In addition to this I have drained and replaced the fluid and checked the magnets in the sump (no metal) about two years ago. I put Comma in again.

I have noted however, that when I start it from cold everything is silent apart from the exhaust burble at the back. The noise is only evident when everything is nice and hot. When we had two identical X5s the other one also did it but only very slightly - it was much quieter.
So. Questions..
Has anyone experienced this? Would the viscosity of the Comma fluid be different from the ZF fluid or be affected by temperature (the box does not overheat)?
Do TC's knock and if they do what's in them that can knock?
Come on then get your thinking caps on and bang out some ideas. If I have to have a new TC then so be it but I open to other opinions.

[StuBeeDoo]

Purely personally, I wouldn't have used any other than ZF's recommended fluid. That's not saying that the issue would not have occurred if ZF fluid had been used.

If it's not knocking when the transmission is cold, that seems to me to be because the fluid will be thicker at that point in time - indicating a degree of wear.

You don't say what mileage the car had done when the issue first became apparent but you say 5-speed, so we're talking E53. Even if the mileage is low, the car will be at least 15 years old by now. I don't know about the earlier transmissions, but for the 8HP ZF specify fluid & filter changes on time before mileage (3 years or 50k miles) IIRC. Do you have any evidence that the transmission was serviced at all before you bought the car? If it only ever went through the dealership system, I would think it unlikely - meaning that from ZF's point-of-view services had been missed.


This is totally my opinion, and I am not attempting to pass it off as advice. Others may well have more insight and see your situation differently.

[Themoog2]

I have a service history with my car but no record of trans service.
Yes it is 2001 E53 4.4 and when I got it there was 145k and now its 163k (that's only 18k ish in 5 yrs...).
Yes I agree that if the noise is only apparent when hot then there must be some wear on something. The only thing I can think of that would make a knocking noise is the transmission fluid pump - I am not aware of anything within the torque converter that would knock but could be wrong.
Ive also come across an article by Tim Meek of 'Tim's bmw repairs and information' and he had a problem with the torque converter in one of his cars. It had a drone at certain rpm along with the juddering and skipping like mine had.
Mine sometimes has a drone at 2k rpm. Some days its evident some days not. His symptoms are identical apart from the noise. He states his are faulty lock up clutches in the TC.
I have tried to contact him to discuss but to no avail so TIM if you are reading this then drop me a pm..
I could do with driving and identical X5 to compare as when I took it to one of the specialists they drove and said it seemed OK.
You know though don't you when you have had a car for years and something doesn't feel right..

[jason@bwchiptune]

Can you tell me the colour of the oil you put in ?
Also can you post the oil Specification that you used

The original oil for you car is a golden clear colour with is a long life oil

If you have used atf or dextron which are red in colour this will be the wrong oil for your car

I’ve seen for many year people putting the in correct oils in there cars gear boxes

Where the confusion is in the books the parts supplier use it states aft or dextron can be use with a little * at the end of the name

The * means only for emergency use only (to get you home)




BW chiptune

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[Themoog2]

The Comma mvatf + I used is red.

[Themoog2]

It does make me wonder that if I did a double service on it with the zf fluid it would make a difference..

[Alan Gunn]

I had the lockup clutches go in a tc but on the e46 320d.
The drone was not there nut i got a vibration at a certain speed and a very slight incline but it sounded like i was on the rumble strip.
Dr-tranny is the test put some in and the noise/vibration went away i also used it on a vw aute with a strange vibration and sorted it.
Don't know how long it works for as i got the tc changed in the 320d and i sold the vw.

[Greydog]

The poor old gearbox is possibly the most battered and brutalised part of most cars. Manufacturers like BMW who state "sealed for life" don't help, they really mean the end of their Warranty responsibility.

When I brought my first X5 4.4 (AUC) there were a lot of posts about gearbox failures (mainly the GM box at that time) so I did some homework and discovered ZF recommend service between 60 and 100 kilometres depending on use. My X5 brought with a tow kit to pull a horse trailer had covered 40k miles it already had the occasional hard down change when stopping so I booked it in with ZF who carried out a full service I also changed oil in both diffs and the transfer case. The changes up and down the box were back to silky smooth then a tree got blown over end of X5!! My replacement was is a 4.6is 48k on the clock it is now at 156k and the gearbox is still silky, I have had it serviced every 2 years regardless of miles by ZF, diffs and transfer case at the same time. Yes the car has had its issue's (engine rebuild) but overall it is a car that does it's job really well and at my age I hope we both carry on for a few years yet

So regardless of Make or Marque don't trust Dealer networks or service histories and make sure it is done

[henrym3]

My 4.6 now has 158k and has had 2 g/b oil changes in my ownership. I always buy the oil and filter from BMW and do it every 50k. Silky smooth BUT most times if I do a scan it will show "torque converter excessive slip" this does not show up in any way when driving normally or when flooring it. Been like that for over 60k, obviously I’m ignoring it. I would agree with your above plan to do a couple of oil changes with ZF oil. Finish off with oil and filter. Do you do the oil changes yourself?

[Themoog2]

I do, yes.
I may give it a shot soon. Drain, New filter, original fluid then a few days later drain and fill again. If I can be bothered..
I may take it somewhere to get done or flushed - that way all the fluid gets swapped.

[henrym3]

I know what you mean, it is a PITA to do without lifts and all the fancy tools. These days my head can do it but the body seems more reluctant. Obviously the machine which empty’s the torque converter is the best way but have no idea what sort of cost it is. I’d also find it hard to trust that the ZF/bmw fluid would be used. I’d be inclined to ask how much oil they need for a flush and fill and then buy it myself. I need to have more faith in my fellow humans.

[X5Sport]

The local specialist to me only uses OEM fluids for if you provide. I thinks it’s mainly because these days they are getting 90% of their trade from failed VAG cars (judging by what’s in their car park all the time) whereas when my E53 box went, BMW was 90% of their trade. My guess is VAG don’t use the same fluids. That being said, all their work comes with a 12-month warranty and a service check at 1,000 miles after fitting an exchange box.

I think they use Shell transmission fluids.