Polishing & Scratch Removal

Avtar · Post by **Avtar** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:16 pm

The weather will soon be picking up and we shall all no doubt be out there with our buckets, clay bars, polishes working up a sweat and then taking posting pictures of our shiny X5's.

My X does not require any more than this at this stage, however, my wifes 330 vert is another story and being a 2001 model it has a number of minor sctraches, swirl marks, etc and needs a good detail and so I am considering buying a polishing machine and giving this a ago myself, when the weather improves. However, not having attempted a detail of this degree before I wanted to get some advice on the following areas;

Type of polishers and pads?
Where to buy?
What the steps are to follow?
Any other points that I have not considered?

Or am I potentially out of my depth and should leave it to a detailer...................

I look forward to the responses.

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:31 pm

Whatever you do, don't read www.detailingworld.co.uk as you will be bankrupt by the end of the summer

I bought the Porter Cable polisher and have the full range of pads, polishers, sealers etc etc. I did find that I use different pads and polishes depending on the colour.

My X5 is Highland Green, and responds well to Menzerna. I use FPII and FMJ for final on that, and it works great. I tried Swissol, which is great on my red Golf, but does nothing on the BMW.

What colour is the 330?

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:37 pm

Sounds like it's all round to yours for a bit of a spit and polish then...... You being the local expert an all...

Jalf · Post by **Jalf** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:47 pm

I just got another delivery from cleanyourcar I'm planning on having a snowfoam, wash, clay, polish and wax wheel arches cleaned prior to putting my big wheels back on early next week, already wheel guarded and dressed the wheels/tyres ready to go back on, probably a few more steps in there too but it'll be a full day job again

Avtar · Post by **Avtar** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:57 pm

[quote=""pvr""]Whatever you do, don't read http://www.detailingworld.co.uk as you will be bankrupt by the end of the summer

I bought the Porter Cable polisher and have the full range of pads, polishers, sealers etc etc. I did find that I use different pads and polishes depending on the colour.

My X5 is Highland Green, and responds well to Menzerna. I use FPII and FMJ for final on that, and it works great. I tried Swissol, which is great on my red Golf, but does nothing on the BMW.

What colour is the 330?[/quote]

It is Cosmos Black

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:00 pm

That is rock hard, you will need some Intensive Polish and a courser (medium) pads to get scratches out with that.

I had to use the harderst combo I have on the black VW Polo I have, and I know that BMW paint is just as hard. AW8 has black so might be able to point to the polish that it likes.

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:18 pm

All depends on budget & attitude to risk of damage to the car.

Machine : I use a Meguiars G220 random orbital polisher.

Pads : Megs 7" foam cutting pad, (Megs used to discourage use of same with G220 saying it could cause damage), 2 x 7" Megs polishing pads, 2 x (donated to me & seldom used) Megs finish pads.

Polishes : Megs 83 & 80 & more recently Megs 105 :

To be honest the 83 & 80 hardly touch BMW clearcoat with a polish pad via the G220. I initially corrected my whole car with 83 & polish pad but it took me several days & was very hard work. I since accquired Megs 105 which I am testing at the moment.This has more of a compound quality and make work easier but even using this and the more aggressive Megs foam cutting pad I found it hard going to remove swirls & RDS the other day after 2/3 sets with slow passes, power setting 5 from Max 6 & applying max pressure that still allows the backing plate & pad to spin.

If I wanted to go more aggressive I would need to go to a wool cut pad but these are really not a good idea for those unfamiliar & not really designed for random orbitals like the G220, (which are aimed at those wanting a safe solution to home detailing). The other issue is that my G220 might struggle to correct & finish with polish pad after that aggressive wool pad stage.

Menzerna make decent polishes & power gloss should be up to ther task on firt or 2nd set Menz polishes & compounds were designed with Merc clearcoat.

You should bear in mind that most bodyshops use faster & more capable of heat generation rotaries - not random orbitals like my G220. That said I have seen an Aston Martin badly corrected by a main dealer using a rotary & there were trail and buffer marks all over it. I have no idea what pad/polish/compound/speed combo was used but this shows that in the wrong hands it is easy to use a rotray & make a hash of correction, (let alone risk of taking off too much clearcoat on certain cars). I am confident I could have easily corrected the rotary defects left on that A.M. with my G220, but I don't have rotary skills as I have yet to use one. I may get a rotary in future & if I do I will get a couple of scrap panels to experiment with first.

Many may shudder at my talk of aggressive machine polishing. When reading posts of serious enthusiasts & even pro detailers they have indicated that a softer approach is virtually a waste of time on BMW clearoat as on our cars. I must emphasise I wouldn't dream of being anywhere near so aggressive on say Mazda clearcoat. My advice to anyone starting on an unknown clearcoat is to go in gently & work upwards.

If looking to buy a 1st random orbital machine I would try a DAS-6 PRO which is being marketed as the most powerful dedicated random orbital machine out there at moment. I would NOT buy another G220 - I am on my second unit, (1st sorted under warranty via, Alex at Serious Performancewho is a top bloke and very helpful). Supposedly it was only 1tst batch machines that had problems with bushes & the later machines are more allegedly more durable- a fair few had G220s fail. I still use it, but I seldom if ever set it to max for fear of burning out the motor brushes- even if mine has revised items,(assumption is that it does as unit replaced when these had been on sale nearly a year). The DAS-6 PRO also comes with 2 different backing plates, potentially more flexibility for smaller pads which, incidentally, can generate a little more cut as well as being easier to manouvere.

With harder BMW paint there is logic to the sensible & potentially competent going straight to rotary. This Silverline seems cracking value & I would buy one if looking for my 1st rotary. Once again, if buying a rotary then I would practice on scrap BMW panels 1st & move onto my car later. If you have significant rotary doubts then go for the DAS-6 PRO & suitable products with enough cut - just don't expect it to get speedy results on hard bmw clearcoat.

Re dark colours.........Darker colours are less forgiving & further correction time often required as same on a silver car would be barely if at all noticeable unless strricly scrutinised. With any colour the detailer may often have to make a decision whether to remove lots of clearcoat to deal with a random deep scratch, (RDS), or whether to just perform sufficent correction to reduce visibility of same whilst having wider consideration for long term integrity of the surrounding & worked on area. There are methods to keep correction working areas specific to RDS such as using masking tape &/or maybe using a little G3 compound along the length of RDS before correcting the RDS & surrounding area with the machine & less aggressive product. Difficult to explain here & concerned not to cause undue confusion albeit I feel I may have already given you too much to digest in one sitting.

Finally I can assure you that it is not a requirement to spend masses of hard earned to get a reasonable kit though you can spend far more if so inclined.

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:07 pm

Good and sound advice - especially about practicing on scrap panels first. I have a Halfords 240v orbital polisher which is OK, but no better than that. It's fine on clean paintwork, but cr@p if your goal is a mirror finish. There was an article in one of the BMW Owners Club mags recently about polishing and it recommended the Megs polisher as a 'starter machine' for those just getting into detailing. The article also made it very clear that only those were really sure about what they were doing and understood the significance and proper use of each compound, lubricants and polishing bonnets should use a rotary polisher, and even then it too recommended buying a scrap bonnet to play on first.

I can't remember which rotary their man used, but it wasn't cheap. One day maybe.

Avtar · Post by **Avtar** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:37 am

Thanks AW8, great advice as always and you have given me plenty to think about.....

Nat · Post by **Nat** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:19 pm

Hi,

I was bought a Meguires G220 and I think its a pile of crap. It cumbersome to hold. It has this bloody great handle above the polishing pad and nothing at the back, so you need a hand the size of a catchers mit to hold it. Used with meguires 80 and 83 it seems to do nothing at all. Also The meguires pads desintegrate as they are much bigger than the backing plate and they have trouble sticking to the backing plate as well. I use sonus smaller pads with it and they are much better. I didnt want to offend my Wife so I have kept it, but as a orbital polisher I find it crap. I did a friends Golf that was severely scratched from being driven against hedges down country lanes and Meg 80/83 did nothing. I gave up in the end.
Eventually I switched to 3M's G3 compound ( which you use with water ) which was much much better and it comes off with a jet wash and requires no masking off of your cars trim. That saves a lot of time. Being a DA the meguires doesnt leave any machine swirl marks. However I now know what vibration fingers is. It is really an unpleasant machine to use.

http://www.autopaint-pro.co.uk/1l-advan ... la-3-p.asp

If you do have any other marks, finish off with 3M's Finesse.

http://www.autopaint-pro.co.uk/1l-3m-09 ... t-86-p.asp

I wouldnt buy a G220 ............its supposed to be safe for amateurs, and I guess It is.......... because it doesnt do much .I found with the Meguires polishes 80/83 it does nothing. More money wasted.
Even with the G3 polish it took me 3 goes to get the top half of a Golf front wing looking relatively scratch free.

I am sure there are many who would argue how marvelous Meguires products are and I have used many that are good. G220 and related compounds arent for me.
So thats 2 dont buy.

Regards

Nat.

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:54 pm

As I prior indicated 80 & 83 are little use via a G220 and Megs foam pad. I did correct my X5 with same but it literally took days to do this....I now use Megs 105 & Megs burgundy cut pad via G220.

80 & 83 would be appropriate for softer clearcoats......I went through my RX-8 clearcoat using AG SRP by hand.

Definitely agree against the G220 as recommendation hence me mentioning other options.....For me I am thinking along lines of silverline rotary at some point in future.

Jalf · Post by **Jalf** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:11 pm

I gave mine a going over on tuesday using an old ultimate detailing machine with a white chemical guys hex-logic pad and menzerna FF to take off the fine swirls/marks left from claying,then I finished off with auto glym HD wax, to be honest I did have plans to go further but I lost interest when I was polishing

I found 2 stone chips while I was going around it that I slightly over-filled with paint, smoothed off the bump of paint with my thumb (I know, very cowboy style) then buffed off the excess leaving the paint in the chip and level with the surface.
minor HDR in the garage

Big wheels back on (cue snow!)

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:43 pm

[quote=""Jalf""]

Big wheels back on (cue snow!)[/quote]

Check out the 'stealth 6'

Great looking example Jalf - I'm only jealous

Sent from my iPod device using Tapatalk

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:20 pm

I do wish Jalf would stop doing that.............

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:23 pm

[quote=""AW8""]I do wish Jalf would stop doing that.............

[/quote]

Shall I ban him?

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