3.0d won't start or even crank

[Chrispy]

Morning chaps,

Got into the car this morning and found it wouldn't start - not even crank.  You hear the pumps priming etc but nothing from the starter at all when you press the start button.

Where do I start?  Are the starters known to just fail on these things?  I've had starters before where they stick so they spin but won't spring out to engage the flywheel but this isn't even spinning, it's just silent after the pump priming etc once the button is pressed.

And if it is the starter, and needs replacement, are we talking a big job?  From the YouTube videos it looks plug and play (no coding) and an intake manifold off job to get to.  Replacement starters don't seem too pricey if not going to the dealer for one....

Thanks,

Chris.

[Alan Gunn]

Auto or manual.
If auto have you tried putting it in N.
What is the battery voltage getting cold at night now so older batteries will start to fail.

[Chrispy]

Auto.  The car was in park not neutral when I tried and is on the original battery AFAIK.  It's possible the battery is on its last legs (2012 car with over 80k on the clock) but I'm not at home to check the resting voltage right now unfortunately. 

I also tried both keys to see if it was a key battery / immobilizer thing and neither worked. 

It's definitely been much cooler recently though so it does stand to reason the battery doesn't have the guts to do it any more.

[Spandex]

I've had a starter fail on an e61 525d that basically had a lot of the symptoms of a failing battery (or faulty alternator/regulator not charging the battery). It would either crank slowly, or not at all.

So, it is possible for a starter to fail in the way you describe. Can't help with your other questions though.

[Leslie]

If the gearstick is showing park id try charging the battery before going any further or a jump start from another car. The starter on my 330d was on the way out a few years back and it would spin they disengage ,yours is doing nothing so suspect battery first though it could be other things ...

[Spandex]

[quote="Leslie"]
The starter on my 330d was on the way out a few years back and it would spin they disengage ,yours is doing nothing so suspect battery first though it could be other things ...
[/quote]
If the mechanism (solenoid, or whatever) to engage the starter fails then it will spin. If the actual starter motor itself fails, then it will engage, then do nothing.

If the battery (or alternator) had failed there should be other signs. There would be various other random electrical faults showing up - these cars are full of electronics and they're notoriously fussy. A dodgy battery usually causes all kinds of weird issues long before it reaches the point where it can't crank.

Checking the battery is simple and free so it's a reasonable first step, but my money is on the starter.

[Chrispy]

Thanks for all the replies guys.  It's the battery.....was flat as a f*rt.  You could hear the solenoid engage but no cranking, and when you tried the fans dipped - something I didn't notice before.  It started fine last night but this morning was no chance.  My concern was it was the starter solenoid or something, and I've hard starters in the past spin but not pop out (old Ford Fiesta) which needed hitting with a hammer to "unstick them".  This wasn't doing that, you could tell it was engaging the flywheel but not doing anything after that.

Got some jump leads on it and it fired into life straight away.  It didn't even have enough juice to take it out of park and into neutral when I tried.  And no sparks when connecting the earth jump lead - hardly any juice at all.

Also explains the weird recent phenomena where when getting in the car the sat nav split screen would always reset to "current position", the climate would change to a lower temp and turn off auto, and steering wheel would forget to come out into position etc etc.  All just a bit freaky and I've done some long journeys recently too - must be the lower temperatures which have finished it off.

So it's booked in at the local dealer for a new battery and coding etc next week - shorter runs are now out, DRL's and welcome lights are disabled and if need be I can jump the car on a morning from the wifes X1 which is parked next to it.

[Graeme]

In the 10 year life of my E70 I've had two new batteries - first one was the wrong fitment from the factory and gave problems when the car was less than a year old, second one lasted almost 8 years.  Also had problems with the battery in an E53 before that.  In each case the same issues were evident - clock and date needing reset, radio and phone pre-sets lost, sat nav details down.  The power consumption when the car is "woken up" of after the engine is stopped is quite considerable before everything shuts down.  Sitting in with the radio on eats juice from the battery and only a one in good condition can cope. Short journeys don't allow enough of a recharge to replace the energy lost.  Only long term cure is to get a new battery fitted and coded to the car!

Graeme

[Chrispy]

I've had many many cars in my time (including a few 3 series) and this is the first car I've had where the battery has just packed in/ gotten weak resulting in this sort of thing.  Sure I've had a few cars where I've carelessly left the radio on, lights on etc and got back in to find a flat battery (thus needed a jump, much to my embarrassment) but this car seems to be one that simply spanks its battery through normal operation.  Not just leaving things on by accident etc without the engine running.  Just goes to show the load and how busy the car is when unlocking it, putting the key in the dash and starting her up.  If you use the whole "his and hers" keys thing, the drivers seat moves to the saved position before even opening the door so the car is clearly always doing something.  The price you pay for "modern" technology I guess.

Having seen the battery in the boot it's a big old thing and interesting how the coding is required too - not just a case of slapping a new one on and that's it.  I guess 6 years and 80K miles is enough to render one pretty much kaput?

[Alan Gunn]

It's getting to the new battery time of year.
Many years ago my daughter turned up at my door saying her car had broken down.
She had left home and stopped at the parer shop got back in her car and nothing.
Turned out to be the battery totally dead when i went down to it put a new one on and never a problem in the next 5 years she had that car.

[Chrispy]

I think I've just been lucky until now then - even with my old bangers.  Winter has normally meant things like glow plug issues and long cranking times etc for me but not had a battery go south just being sat overnight.  Oh well, at least it was a simple enough thing to sort and hopefully kills a few other weird birds with the same stone.

[Spandex]

[quote="Spandex"]
If the battery (or alternator) had failed there should be other signs.
[/quote]
[quote="Chrispy"]
Also explains the weird recent phenomena where when getting in the car the sat nav split screen would always reset to "current position", the climate would change to a lower temp and turn off auto, and steering wheel would forget to come out into position etc etc.
[/quote]
Probably should have mentioned those... 

[Chrispy]

[quote="Spandex"]
[quote="Spandex"]
If the battery (or alternator) had failed there should be other signs.
[/quote]
[quote="Chrispy"]
Also explains the weird recent phenomena where when getting in the car the sat nav split screen would always reset to "current position", the climate would change to a lower temp and turn off auto, and steering wheel would forget to come out into position etc etc.
[/quote]
Probably should have mentioned those... 
[/quote]

Ha, well to be fair the car has done these since day 1 - that's a full year. I'd just gotten used to the amnesiac steering wheel and split screen thing. Climate was a new one but I've had other issues with that recently meaning a new HVAC control unit was needed. Searches on here showed others with the same issues so it just felt like one of the cars quirks. Never an issue starting though - I'd have thought with the grunt required to start that would have suffered first rather than little electronic gizmos in the car? Like slow cranking or something to give the game away?
Every time in previous cars I've flattened my own battery or pushed it a bit I've got back in and tried to start it with a chug....chug.....chug so it was obvious the battery wasn't up to the job.

The night before this thing died completely it fired into life the same as it ever has. Turning over nice and quick. Ho hum. Lesson learned.

[X5Sport]

The E70 and newer shut down ancillaries to give the starter more of a chance, but you should get a warning about the battery discharge state on the drive when you switch the ignition on.

I had an AGM battery just die overnight a few months back.  It went from being fine to just giving 5V - and causing mayhem as the alarm triggered as it is on it’s own battery!  Unlocking the car was a challenge!  Especially at 04:00 

[Alan Gunn]

Let us know if the other niggle's start to work after the new battery.
The car could have been telling you in it's own way it wanted a new battery for a long time but you didn't know.