About to go for an E70 to replace an E46

[Alchemist]

Firstly hello as this is my first post!

Secondly a thanks as I'm been using this forum a lot in the last few weeks - goldmine of useful info and helpful research.

As per my post title, afer 5years of E46 (330D) ownership (and 9 years of E36 320 ownership before that) I've decided to move on up to an X5.

I need a bigger family car (2 kids) as we do lots of camping holidays including towing a caravan. The E46 can handle this, but the ride is firm when towing and I could do with something more stable and solid up front, especially if we get a bigger caravan in future years.

I've decided an E70 is the one for me, as can't imagine owning another brand but need a 4x4. 7 seats would add extra flexibility and my budget means I'll be looking for the  3.0d model in an SE (probably in the higher tax bracket). I've seen a few, but wondering how much I should avoid the dynamic package if it's really stiff, or would swapping the 20" wheels for 18 or 19" make a difference?

Slightly nervous about all the electrics and gizmos on the E70 going wrong compared to my E46 (which I maintain myself) but willing to seek out a well-maintained car and take the risk.

Any advice and thoughts welcome - especially from fellow towers!

Andrew

[gmc15]

Hi Andrew and welcome
I have had my E70 for 3 years now and the only things it has needed are a front spring and a parking sensor. I tow a 2t caravan and it is an effortless tow, car has plenty of power and is very stable. My car is a 2012 and the tax is £290.
I am sure you will love the X5 and there will be loads of room for all the family, and camping gear. Mechanically they are easy enough to work on for simple things like brakes.

Graeme

[Alchemist]

Thans Graeme, that's reassuring and reality is all modern cars are complex, but at least I'll be upgrading to something I really like to drive and be in. Does yours have sports suspension and what size wheels?

[Alchemist]

I'm also presuming the suspension settings on the SE Dynamic pack aren't optional as in electronically selected?

[X5Sport]

Most items on the E70 are optional, but I think the Dynamic Pack will give you adjustable dampers.  Self-levelling rear air suspension is very common, but Dynamic Drive with electrically adjustable dampers not so which may make hunting the one you want more challenging.

And

[Horizon]

Maybe wrong, but isn't Dynamic Pack on theSE just give you larger  wheels and sports suspension and pro nav ?
And possibly sports seats

[X5Sport]

Hmm, we need a brochure for that year, probably each year, to help identify what is in each Pack!  BMW never did the same thing for very long.  >:(

Is the clever suspension ‘Adaptive Drive’ or something else?  On my Gran Tourer it’s called Dynamic Damping Control.

[gmc15]

[quote="Alchemist"]
Thans Graeme, that's reassuring and reality is all modern cars are complex, but at least I'll be upgrading to something I really like to drive and be in. Does yours have sports suspension and what size wheels?
[/quote]
Mine has self levelling suspension but it is not adjustable so I assume it's not sports suspension. It runs on 20" wheels with Bridgestone runflats.

[Alchemist]

If it has 20" wheels it may be Sports suspension, as I'm not sure it is adjustable - it may just have stiffer springs and firmer ride.

Really reassuring to know you tow with you rig, makes me think an X5 is the right car for me.

[NehalX5]

The dynamic pack for the SE was nice, it gave the aluminium roof racks, electric sports seats, sports steering wheel, better bumpers, widened arches and those very nice 20" wheels. We would have got one if we didn't get an M-Sport. One thing to note is all 3.0sd are in the lower tax band due to it being a newer engine, so it isn't always the case of high tax if you want to go for something bigger. In the pre-LCI, the difference in fuel economy between the 3.0d and the 3.0sd is minimal, which is why we went for one. It is more expensive though, budget may not permit.

You have owned an E46 with the M57, it is the same things that need to be looked out for on these cars. Basically check everything works. They are amazing drives, I believe it handles better than our A6 with adaptive steering, so that is a lot to say. They are spacious, luxurious and really are some of the best cars out on the road today. I do not understand the sheer hate for SUV's today, the jealousy gets to people as we have had our car keyed, but it isn't an issue. You will love it, I guarantee you.

Adaptive drive and dynamic dampers are different things. Adaptive drive includes adjustable dampers as well as active roll bars front and rear. Don't think it includes air suspension. Self-levelling air suspension was also on the X5 standalone, think it is normally specced with third row seating. Dynamic dampers are the dampers alone. 

[Alchemist]

[quote="NehalX5"]
The dynamic pack for the SE was nice, it gave the aluminium roof racks, electric sports seats, sports steering wheel, better bumpers, widened arches and those very nice 20" wheels. We would have got one if we didn't get an M-Sport. One thing to note is all 3.0sd are in the lower tax band due to it being a newer engine, so it isn't always the case of high tax if you want to go for something bigger. In the pre-LCI, the difference in fuel economy between the 3.0d and the 3.0sd is minimal, which is why we went for one. It is more expensive though, budget may not permit.

You have owned an E46 with the M57, it is the same things that need to be looked out for on these cars. Basically check everything works. They are amazing drives, I believe it handles better than our A6 with adaptive steering, so that is a lot to say. They are spacious, luxurious and really are some of the best cars out on the road today. I do not understand the sheer hate for SUV's today, the jealousy gets to people as we have had our car keyed, but it isn't an issue. You will love it, I guarantee you.

Adaptive drive and dynamic dampers are different things. Adaptive drive includes adjustable dampers as well as active roll bars front and rear. Don't think it includes air suspension. Self-levelling air suspension was also on the X5 standalone, think it is normally specced with third row seating. Dynamic dampers are the dampers alone.
[/quote]

HUGELY helpful, thanks so much for the explanation. Is there an easy way when viewing an X5 to tell if it has adaptive drive and dynamic dampers? TBH these aren't deal breakers, but really handy to know what to look for as they'd be nice extras. Having owned and worked on an M57 engine, I know it to a degree, hence I'll be replacing the stats early on and removing the swirl flaps, which should be similar to my E46. I'll also look to get the EGR mapped out and blanked in the near future.

I also hear you on the hate front, I've had BMWs for years but since suggesting getting an X5 I've had family members telling me they 'hate' them, purely on image alone. But a) a love BMs and b) it's genuinely hard to find a more suitable nice car that ticks all my boxes, inc a chain drive engine.

I also hear you on the tax, reality is my price range probably places the sd slightly out, hence I'm looking for a well cared for 3.0d. I'll take the hit on tax as our classic is exempt and we're both (me and the wife) willing to pay more to run a more suitable car for the family and long distance towing. I've looked at Kia etc and they're superb value, but I'll really regret selling my E46 if I don't get another BMW to replace it with, if that makes sense (took me a year to find the right E46).

[Graeme]

Although it was registered in April 2008, mine is an August 2007 build E70 3.0d, not the SE, and the annual tax is now over £500.  The change came in October 2007 with a different engine and, at the time, "efficiency dynamics" being a main selling point as well as the tax being halved because the CO2 emissions dropped from 231g/km to below 225 - the magic cut-off point!! I don't know what the tax situation was with 3.5 and 4.0 M Sport variants. The tax difference is £5 a week which may make a difference reflected in the purchase price - though 9-10 year old cars will probably have a high mileage so seeing a service history is vital!

It has some  sport pack items fitted such as sports seats, M steering wheel, adaptive drive, shadow line trim and anthracite roof lining but sports suspension deletion.  19" wheels were standard.

For adaptive drive, the rear shock absorbers are electronically controlled by sensors that give increased damping to keep the car as level as possible during cornering.  It makes the ride noticeably better than in cars without it that roll on corners!

It's a 7 seater and thus came with air suspension which automatically levels the car.  It's easy to tell it's working because if xenon lights are fitted the car levels itself and the beams point where they should, compensating for the load in the rear or if a caravan is being towed. I believe if a factory fitted towbar is present (not an aftermarket BMW one) the same suspension is fitted even if not a 7 seater.

The adaptive drive and the self levelling air suspension operate independently of each other, are automatic and cannot be controlled by the driver, except that there is a sport setting switch behind the gear selector that makes the adaptive drive a little firmer - noticeable on fast twisty roads.  If you can get the car onto a ramp it's easy to see what rear suspension is fitted - the air bags and the electrical contol systems fastened to the shock absorbers - but not so easily seen unlss you crawl under the back!

As X5 Sport rightly points out you need the brochure for the model year of the car you're looking at because they kept changing the packages offered.  Mine has black roof rails, black wheel arches though the sport pack did not change their colour - that came later!!!  You should be able to get a print out of all the specifications, and extras fitted or deleted using the VIN number.

Hope this helps,

Graeme

[NehalX5]

[quote="Alchemist"]
[quote="NehalX5"]
The dynamic pack for the SE was nice, it gave the aluminium roof racks, electric sports seats, sports steering wheel, better bumpers, widened arches and those very nice 20" wheels. We would have got one if we didn't get an M-Sport. One thing to note is all 3.0sd are in the lower tax band due to it being a newer engine, so it isn't always the case of high tax if you want to go for something bigger. In the pre-LCI, the difference in fuel economy between the 3.0d and the 3.0sd is minimal, which is why we went for one. It is more expensive though, budget may not permit.

You have owned an E46 with the M57, it is the same things that need to be looked out for on these cars. Basically check everything works. They are amazing drives, I believe it handles better than our A6 with adaptive steering, so that is a lot to say. They are spacious, luxurious and really are some of the best cars out on the road today. I do not understand the sheer hate for SUV's today, the jealousy gets to people as we have had our car keyed, but it isn't an issue. You will love it, I guarantee you.

Adaptive drive and dynamic dampers are different things. Adaptive drive includes adjustable dampers as well as active roll bars front and rear. Don't think it includes air suspension. Self-levelling air suspension was also on the X5 standalone, think it is normally specced with third row seating. Dynamic dampers are the dampers alone.
[/quote]

HUGELY helpful, thanks so much for the explanation. Is there an easy way when viewing an X5 to tell if it has adaptive drive and dynamic dampers? TBH these aren't deal breakers, but really handy to know what to look for as they'd be nice extras. Having owned and worked on an M57 engine, I know it to a degree, hence I'll be replacing the stats early on and removing the swirl flaps, which should be similar to my E46. I'll also look to get the EGR mapped out and blanked in the near future.

I also hear you on the hate front, I've had BMWs for years but since suggesting getting an X5 I've had family members telling me they 'hate' them, purely on image alone. But a) a love BMs and b) it's genuinely hard to find a more suitable nice car that ticks all my boxes, inc a chain drive engine.

I also hear you on the tax, reality is my price range probably places the sd slightly out, hence I'm looking for a well cared for 3.0d. I'll take the hit on tax as our classic is exempt and we're both (me and the wife) willing to pay more to run a more suitable car for the family and long distance towing. I've looked at Kia etc and they're superb value, but I'll really regret selling my E46 if I don't get another BMW to replace it with, if that makes sense (took me a year to find the right E46).
[/quote]

You definitely do not want to be getting a Kia  ). There is no doubt they are very good value and cheaper to run, but they will never drive similar to an X5. Most owners of X5's struggle to buy anything else afterwards, its a reason why many members on this site jump from E53 to E70 forums.

Adaptive drive includes dynamic dampers. On the E70, it is simply a sport button where the shifter is. Essentially, adaptive drive models include the DS mode on the gearbox (akin to every E70) and also has the button which displays the word 'sport' on the dashboard when pressed. When it is not pressed, the car is in comfort mode, which is still using all the dynamic drive features to provide a comfortable ride. I have heard it is a different drive to a M-Sport E70, mainly in that it is completely flat when going around corners. Interestingly, all the M50d X5's have this as standard, so they may be on the list soon. Another nice extra is the professional Hi-Fi system with two front subwoofers for that phat bass. They can be distinguished by there being a smaller and larger speaker on the doorcards in the rear doors. I also recommend heated seats for the rear, very nice addition.

Finally, take the family when you go for a test drive. If it is a 7 seat model, get the children in the third row. The seats aren't too big, the ones on our older XC90 were much more spacious therefore it would be good to test them. On top of that, there are reports from some that their children get a sea-sickness feeling from sitting in the back of the car, likely from the air suspension, so you might have to see how that is.

Thinking about it now, there is a very big difference in the M57 in the E46 330d and the M57 in the X5. Power is up to 235hp from 215hp, and there is an aluminium block instead of the cast iron block. Believe it makes it more refined. The swirl flaps have been revised on the M57TÜ2 engines (X5), meaning that having a change isn't compulsory as they are more reliable. BMW actually listened to customers there. People still do it for peace of mind however, haven't touched it personally on our 3.0sd.

Finally, you may luck out with tax. Later 3.0d models (and the xDrive30d models) from around later 2007-2008 (57 plate onwards I think) have lower tax. Plug the car into a tax checker to check prices when viewing. And get HPI on everything. Good luck!

[Chrispy]

Oooh an E36 320i.....I had one of those! A pre TU (non VANOS M50) that I loved to rev the hell out of from time to time......

Shame the fuel tank leaked (thus requiring replacement), water pump failed, front brakes kept warping, ECU got flooded and no matter how I drove it would never do more than about 28mpg......  I followed it up with a 318iS which rust killed in the end.

Having had the 2x E36's, a previous E30 316i and a E91 320d I got the E70 to replace, I'm confident you'll feel in very familiar territory with the E70 as most others on here have already said.  it just won't feel as well built - the interiors can rattle and creak like mad, which for a car of this supposed calibre is very disappointing.  An equivalent Q7 will feel very solid interior wise compared.

There's the extra 4x4 system to consider here which is known for being sensitive to a staggered front/ rear setup and tyre rolling radius's (radii? ) not matching.  Look for the debate on star/ * marked tyres and you'll see.

Also the glow plug control module is known for failure - £110 off eBay for the Beru part plus a bit of fitting which requires no coding, just plug and play. Can be heavy on tyres as these things are over 2 tonnes so throwing it about will lunch them quite quickly. Handbrake control unit also known for failure which if it does go is expensive to fix - the part alone is over £800, and new bowden cables usually and coding.  Mine came to £1400 all in at a dealer as the car had to be towed when it died and it was the nearest place that could code....  Mine has also needed a new climate control master unit which is the bit in the dash with knobs on.  Again £110 off eBay for a used one and £45 coding to fit (a new BMW one is over £800 plus VAT).

I too have the 7 seater and it's so far been a godsend with a family of 2x 8 year old kids and a 6 month old baby. I don't honestly know what car I would go for after my E70 - it has enough kit, drives well enough, is spacious and comfy enough, is quick enough and "ok" enough on fuel (considering).

These things are not designed for cheap motoring though regardless of how you look at them, but if you compare them to the competition of the time such as the RR sport, Audi Q7, Merc GL etc then they are by far and away the best all rounder in terms of fuel efficiency, performance and driving dynamics.

[Chrispy]

To add, re the ride (as you raised this as a concern)- the E70 is far from what I'd class as smooth, especially in M Sport guise.  Mine's an M on 19" wheels so obviously quite a stiff suspension setup, but even with the diddy pram wheels (compared to the 20's which look way better) the ride was nothing short of appalling.  You feel every little imperfection in the road and crashy is the only word for me that truly sums it up.  For a 2+ tonne SUV where handling is never going to be perfect, comfort had been completely sacrificed too.

Many claim it's just down to the sports suspension but it's not - it's the run flats.  The 7 seater also requires a high load rating on the rear tyres of 111 so the tyres have to be able to cope with this, and in the case of the 7 seater, that's even whilst deflated.....that means they're basically made of concrete.

Trouble is the only star marked tyres you can find that have that load rating are run flats so you're stuck with them unless you want to stray out of this safety net and look for non RFT alternatives like I have.

I'm not advocating you do this as it's a personal choice, and I was very careful when doing it but the difference in ride as a result is like night and day.  Still a stiff jiggly sporty setup but now much more compliant and doesn't shatter your teeth if you drive over cats eyes on the motorway.....Basically tyres doing what tyres are supposed to do.