4.6is

[stevenstewart42]

Hi
quick question, does the 4.6is suffer with the same timing chain guide issue as the 4.4. I see a lot of posts talking about the 4.4 but as of yet none on the 4.6.
If it is a problem is it worth doing them as preventative maintenance or wait until they start to fail to change them.
Any other preventative maintenance recommended.

[sleepyfolk]

My tame mechanic says it’s too much work/cost to be a preventative thing really, although I expect there might be those that disagree, I decided with mine to change the lower cam chain tensioner (£70 from BMW) and fit a pre-lube system to give the engine oil pressure before it starts. Well I say that but the pre-lube system is in the boot - but it is on the job list for the coming weeks.

Other than the usual full service with quality oil, changing coolant, I’ve changed all the diff and transfer box fluids, rear diff needed driveshaft seals, belts, brake fluid, power steering fluid and pipes that were old and looking dodgy.

Oil separator is likely to be ready for change and associated pipes - doing that soon. Likewise while we’re in there doing the rocker cover gaskets - common leak at this age and changing plan he while in there.

Check the brake pipes as best you can- they are steel and hidden under the plastic under trays, you can see the ends where they connect to the caliper and go up over the rear subframe, they are steel and rust out! Just had all mine done from each wheel back to the ABS unit - £6-700. Had to drop the rear subframe.

Check for aged looking water pipes or brittle/cracking coolant tank.

Other than that it’s been pretty cheap to run really

[henrym3]

Yea 4.6 suffers the same problem, probably don't hear as much because there are a lot less of them. Some would recommend 100k change but a lot seems to depend on the vehicle's life use. Short journeys and lots of heat cycles seem to have a detrimental effect on the guides. Crossing continents clocking up miles is better. When your vehicle is 15/16 years old who knows how some of the previous used them. How deep are your pockets to do a job that doesn't need doing yet. £1500 minimum. If you can DIY then less than £500. It's just labour intensive. The other problem is if you start the job then there are a load of other jobs you should do while in there. ie valley pan, coolant transfer pipes, coolant pump, injector "o" rings, inlet manifold seals, cam cover seals, etc etc. How long do you want to keep the vehicle, if a keeper then all of them things are worth doing, big decisions to make.

[IanP]

Yes, the guides do fail. If you are keeping the car I would get them done.

[AW8]

Agree 4.6is can also be affected.

Guides are not a job I would tackle. I personally would want it done by someone who had prior done same on another M62 lump.

That means £1.5k

When guides went on my 2002  4.4i I had to factor in the cost of the guides being changed plus the fact it soon needed tyres x 4 plus & a service. With the prospect of a £2.5k bill for a car that was on original auto box (which could cost £1.5k to fix if it failed) I decided to sell as spares/repair. The thought of potentially sending £4k or more on a car that would sell for £4k absolute max didn't make sense.....It was also on original brake pipes.

At that stage in my cars life it would have been destined for scrap had  it not been bought by a mechanic who was prepared to work on the car for cost free labour plus parts prices.

It was painful to part with the car as I had cared for it & spent thousands sorting other issues with  over the years.

In have since reflected as to whether I should have kept the car, & maybe found someone to, (perhaps privately), do the work for nearer £1k of my folded money.

Over a year later & I still miss the car.

Well maintained examples with the big jobs done, in acceptable condition sold by a decent sellers are near impossible to source.

Yes its worth doing if you want to keep the car.

As for other preventative work you may wish to do the list could be huge....


To prevent costly engine related issues


Water pump
PAS pump
Alternator
(If any of the above 3 sieze the belts can get chewed up)
Belts


To reduce engine issues

Rocker gaskets
PCV hoses
Coolant pipes
Check function of aux fan (to cool engine)
Header tank (average life 60k)

To reduce braking, steering & suspension issues

Rear subframe bushes
Thrust bushes
PAS pressure hose
Brake pipes
Rear drum overhaul of handbrake shoes.
Suspension compressor repair kit. (Washer fails on piston)

Other

Consider charging or replacing battery prior to it getting low to avoid electrical issues and warning lights.
ATF fluid change
Diff/transfer fuid change
Replace Transmission cooler

Of course, even as careful owners we need to be realistic...Obviously the sum total of the above plus consumeables & servicing could exceed a used E53 vehicles worth.

[henrym3]

After reading that I think I'll sell up, scary or what. )

[IanP]

Mine went 75000 miles before breaking the guides then another 50000 after I repaired the damage. Apart from a couple of burst hoses (which I should have changed at the same time as I did the engine work), it was absolutely reliable,

[sleepyfolk]

maybe I’ll be ok, I’ve done most of the list  )

[stevenstewart42]

Hi Guys
Thanks for your replies. Feeling a wee bit scared. Took a bit of a gamble and bought one of these but don`t actually get to pick it up/see it in the flesh/drive it for another week as I have been out of the country for a while. The seller was up front about the condition of the car and minor faults. Gearbox has been done already so at least thats one thing less (I hope) to worry about.
Interested in these pre-oilers that I have been hearing about. Any recommendations.
Again thanks for the replies, lots of very useful info.
Always liked these wagons and it had to be a V8. Fairly mechanically minded and willing to have a go at anything. They are a lot of car for the money. Whats the worst that can happen !!!!!!

[henrym3]

Don't be put off, these are great machines and if your handy with a spanner they're fairly easy to work on if you've got the time and inclination. These are at the age where they are in the hands of the enthusiastic owner and are in good well looked after condition or they're a shed on wheels. Most jobs are reasonably priced as far as parts go but are labour intensive to do ie timing guide rails/PCV. I'm sure you've read up on common faults and it's better to do things at your leisure than on the side of the road (so to speak) Personally I like the preventive maintenance approach.

[sleepyfolk]

Re the pre-oiler, I’ve got an Instalube system http://www.engineprelube.com/howitworks.html
As I say, mines been in the boot since September because when it arrived it had the wrong solenoid/ controller so I had to wait a while for the replacement to come from the USA, then it got into replacing front suspension and brake pipes so slipped down the to do list! I also took ages to decide which oil pressure guage I was going to fit - ordered in October and it didn’t arrive until January

[V8 00USH]

Yes, absolutely they are affected. Mine went @ 122850 miles and I'm in the middle of fixing it. I was very lucky with mine and the chain didn't slip, probably due to a piece of guide wedging itself between the timing cover and one of the cam sprockets.

Video of how it sounded when it went...

https://youtu.be/-x12IE6o-tI

...and video of how brittle the guides were and the guide piece that saved me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAa1oKDmAwQ

If you've got no history of it being done I would definitely do it as a preventative measure if you are over 100k as it becomes a bigger job if you fix it when it goes due to bits of guide disappearing into the sump and potentially if you're really unlucky it will ruin your engine.

I decided I was going to replace everything whilst I was in there - chains, guides, tensioners, gaskets, PCV system, new oil pickup, rebuild VANOS hubs - so far the cost in parts alone is circa £1k.



I'll be honest with you.....it really isn't a job for the faint hearted!

[henrym3]

This is what you find in the sump, every other oil change I now take the sump off and check for bits as I haven't seen any record of mine being changed. Planning to do towards the end of the year but am moving house first.

[IanP]

This is was you will get if you dont catch the guides in time (or allow a so called expert to do the engine work originally)

[sleepyfolk]

Well thanks for cheering us up!