Possible turbo issue? Engine much louder under acceleration & less go at speed

[ianst0028]

I'm assuming that the video was before fitting before the first run?
If so that play is kinda normal.... Worrying but normal
I'd be more worried about the noise you discribe because that's not normal.... Can you reach the shaft and see how much play there is now?

[X5UK88]

If you think the impeller is catching, I wouldn't be driving it. I'd look into it more.

Speaking from experience.

[Upex]

Yes Ian, before fitting. Kind of same play in the old one after removal lol, so think it's all in my head to be honest, just an easy thing to think as still not got the acceleration she used to, by miles. I drive a gs450h that shifts very well and I was surprised at just how well the x5 accelerated, so got to be saying something. But not now lol, world's apart.

Will need to dissembling again to get to shaft, too much in the way lol.

Do new turbos need time to bed in as it were, or should be there out of the box? (I've not floored it, but loss is immediately noticable).

So, what's others thoughts on possible cause, which more likely and which would throw codes that a generic obd scanner could read:

Inlet manifold pressure sensor?
Faulty maf?
Faulty temp sensor on cooler to inlet pipe?
Duff pressure controller? (How do you test these?)
Missed a boost leak somewhere?
Missed a vac leak (although all bar 1 pipe replaced with new silicone)?
Fuel problem, injector seals, injectors, pump or rail issues?
New turbo duff?


Something else?

Symptoms/situation:
Car starts fine, idels well not jumpy at all, both hot and cold.
No smoke, power isn't there, just doesn't kick in even when cheapo scanner says boost pressure in the teens.
Revs slow to build when accelerating, especially when already moving along.
No codes showing on generic obd reader, no warning notices or lights showing.
Car was able to hold 70mph just fine, at circa 2200 Revs and maintained it, just need a while to get there and bit more gas when going up hill etc.
Gear changing seems fine, smooth and when it should do

Thanks all

[Greydog]

I am not a Diesel driver but one of my sons had similar issues with his Toyota pickup after lots of head scratching from several specialists including Toyota it turned out to be a bad fuel filter that was clogging and restricting fuel flow.
Enough pressure to start and tick over no smoke or drama, when it got to around 2500 rpm it was as flat as a pancake. Fuel pressure was the give away it was at about half what it should be, enough to start and run but that was about all. The fuel filter was not very old having been changed at its last service.

Worth checking fuel pressure if you haven't already done it

[ianst0028]

that noise is the first thing you need to look at ..... i seem to remember you saying you had a boroscope ???
time to dig that out ??? and have a look at the impeller

are all the pipes secure ??

yes it does take some time to bed the turbo in but thats usually done in the idle period i mentioned earlier

the play in the shaft is down to the lack of oil pressure ..... with a new turbo there is very little oil in the bearing so there is always a bit of play


as i've been typing greydog has added a very good point ...... not sure if your generic reader can get fuel pressure but thats worth looking at

[Upex]

Cheers, code reader doesn't do fuel pressure, neither does torque app so stuffed there, however will change fuel filter as have one (was going to change at next service) and it's an easy check I guess.

All pipes secure as far as can tell.

Have booked in with a merc specialist for Wednesday so hopefully he can diagnose it.

Turbo only grates if pushed on a bit, not under 1/8 to 1/4 throtal, more like half. Otherwise ok, but will check it again if chap can't figure something out on Wednesday.

I'll be real pissed if new turbo is goosed out the box, uber waste of money and effort!

Have also ordered a new inlet pressure sensor and 2 new vac controllers, as they are original so can't harm to have spares and use to diagnose etc.

Bloody car, knew I should have insisted on a lexus rx lol.

Cheers all

[grumpywurzel]

Looking at your vid, I would say that you have a duff turbo as the end float seems excessive.  Hope your garage guy can help out

Was it easy to turn the turbo? I looks like when you are wobbling the turbine it is touching the side of the turbo or is it just the way the camera is angled?

[ianst0028]

i'd have agreed with you grumpy .... except the end float is before fitting we've had this issue raised a few times by customers and always been told by suppliers that it will be ok when the engine is run and oil pressure is at the turbine bearing ....thus far we've not had one back (well not for that reason)

[Upex]

So the consensus is that the movement prior to fitting was ok, or not?

That vid was done dry, and yes, at max movement the blades  could touch housing just.

[ianst0028]

my opinion is that if it was a btn or scm turbo that we sell here then yes that movement would be ok and would be taken up by oil pressure

but i know that the turbo wasnt either of those brands and with the noise your describing i would be worried about it

can you get your camera down to the intake impeller and have a good look at the impeller ????

[grumpywurzel]

Thing is tho that you have a noise when the turbo is loaded up, personally I don't like they way it seems to catch the casing at all. I see what you are saying Ian, that once the bearings are pressurised then the movement is reduced. It's just you would like to think there would be bugger all movement.


Upex can you remember if you only had side to side movement as seen on your vid or did you have axial play too?

[Upex]

No axial play that I could tell, by recollection that is, and was hard to get a grip on lol. Rotated lovely and free though, ie turbine spinning wise.

It's a pain to shift hose, but will remove on weekend if garage doesn't yield much, or points to turbo as last one did.

On that, even if it's catching a bit i'd still expect some boost wouldn't I? this has almost none that can be felt, so assume something else broke that's preventing boost. Plus the potential rubbing lol

[ianst0028]

the rubbing noise is what worries me the most .....
no boost could be as simple as pipes connected the wrong way round

hope the garage come up with a simple answer and it's not a faulty turbo ..... i've seen a couple of faulty ones in the last 2 years but most of the warranty stuff we get back is down to errors fitting (and not warranty)

[Upex]

Fingers crossed, I'm confident my fitting is good, and did everything needed, ie new pipes etc, didn't skimp. Guess we'll see what this chap says lol

[Upex]

Well, what a story!

Chap said new turbo is goosed, and I agree, definitely rubbing the turbine/compressor when under load.

He did a scan of the car and found lots of faults. Other garage didn't mention any of them, so doubt they even scanned her, will not be using that place again, as did no better than my cheapo reader that said no faults live or stored lol.

Faults:

Digital diesel electronics (dde) (d50m57b1):
4212, 4222, 4232, 4242, 4252 and 4262 all glow plugs.
4332 rail pressure control valve
4521 charge air pressure control

Electronic transmission management (egs) (gs19a):
5141 no message, receiver EGS, transmitter DSC

Instrument cluster (ike):
(189) BD electronic braking force distribution
(245) F5 No CAN identification (ASC)

Multiple restraint systems (mrs):
80 (50) power supply

Antilock braking system with dsc (abs/dsc) (dxc8):
5EB1 steering-angle sensor, supply
D35C No message (transfer case 192)

Central body electrics (zke):
Door mirror, passengers side, horizontal adjustment, potentiometer
Door mirror, passengers side, vertical adjustment, potentiometer
Compartment sensor, passenger
Door mirror, drivers side, horizontal adjustment, potentiometer

Lamp check module (lcm):
0D, 7A, 7B, 7C, 8E, 8F, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 99 - control unit and almost all lights faulty

Radio (rad) (radio):
Radio fault in power supply

Park distance control (pdc):
0022 22 acoustic generator, front, off

Seat/steering column memory (sm/slm):
0018 steering column, radial short circuit

On board monitor control panel (bmbt):
0001 01 control unit reset
0003 03 PL line, short curciut to ground

Park heating (sth) (zuheiz):
Undervoltage deactivation
Combustion air fan
Circulating pump

Telephone (tel) (telibus2):
97 bluetooth button jammed

So, anyone know where to start?

Chap said he cleared them all and she drove great except for the noise from turbo, but I picked her up and still a bad of crap, so unless they reappeared because he drove her, he not a clue how she should drive!

Arggghhhh.