Possible turbo issue? Engine much louder under acceleration & less go at speed

[Horizon]

If I was in your shoes, and considering removing the turbo my self I would take it to a turbo refurb Company
Any and get it checked out, if it's ok, then it will save you the price of a refurb / new turbo. then you can go from there.

[Upex]

Good shout horizon, and one I've considered, but kind of tight on time. Given I can get a turbo for 250, I'm going to swap out, then can get the old one inspected and fixed, then have a spare to keep or sell on etc. Means I can get the old girl back on the road, if the turbo is indeed the problem.

Even buying the turbo and new pipes and the manifold etc, I'm still saving about 400 to 500 on the price the garage wanted just for the turbo, and not sure they will have changed feed and return pipes, and they definitely wouldn't have upgraded to a cast exhaust manifold, so its a free upgrade as well as saving wads lol

[RickUK]

Hope this is not seen as hijacking this thread,but it is turbo related on the 3lr turbo diesel,on my my old Isuzu Trooper 2.8 td in the handbook it mentioned that after a long thrashing session down the motorway and then when you require too stop like say in the service area,the handbook mention dont switch the engine off straight away as the turbo needs to wind down revs wise and by switching off the engine while its running down it kills the oil supply to the turbo bearings and then causes long term damage,this i can fully understand and always did and never had a turbo failure in 200,000 miles.

But as far as i can see in the X5 owners handbook it does not mention about winding down the turbo,so is this not applicable too these X5 turbos ??? or is it still wise to do what i have always done to prolong the life of it ???

Once again sorry if it seems hijacking the the thread but its also possibly related in direct.

[X5Sport]

It isn't mentioned in most vehicle handbooks.  It has always been kinder to let a turbo cool for a few moments after a motorway type run.  The rpm will die away almost instantly but what you need to do is allow it to cool so oil in the centre bearing does not 'cook'.  Switching a red hot turbo off is not good for it in the long term.  You should also avoid high throttle settings which can typically spool the turbo up to 150,000rpm, until everything has warmed up too.

[RickUK]

[quote="X5Sport"]
It isn't mentioned in most vehicle handbooks.  It has always been kinder to let a turbo cool for a few moments after a motorway type run.  The rpm will die away almost instantly but what you need to do is allow it to cool so oil in the centre bearing does not 'cook'.  Switching a red hot turbo off is not good for it in the long term.  You should also avoid high throttle settings which can typically spool the turbo up to 150,000rpm, until everything has warmed up too.
[/quote]

Many thanks for your reply,does make alot of sense also on using high throttle settings when the engine is also still not upto working temperature,its one thing that i have always done and will continue doing the same with the X5.

[Upex]

I agree, gotta let it warm and cool.

Apart from the odd time where it's not possible, I always do this and used turbo timers on all my powerful turbo petrol cars in past. Can't speak of previous owners of this x5, but hopefully the turbo is at fault through action like this, rather than something more sinister.

Not what made this issue occur, as I was running at steady speed. Fingers crossed eh.

[moose04]

took these of my exhaust manifold time to get prices on a recon turbo and a cast manifold seems like a job on a nice weekend, how are you getting on with your turbo change  upex?

[Upex]

Hopefully that's the source of your issues moose. Why you think you need a new turbo?

Mine on hold till turbo and manifold arrive, plus I need full service kit, oil pipes and gaskets from dealer etc, so be next weekend at very earliest. I'm just praying I find the missing manifold nut and that it's not dropped down to the exhaust valves, or even into cylinder (if they open that much?)

Price wise, cast manifold and gaskets 65 squid, turbo 200 to 250, another 90 for oil pipes etc, plus air and oil filers (fuel to perhaps) plus engine oil, if you need a turbo that is, if not just the manifold and job done.

[moose04]

it seems like oil getting past turbo seals wet/damp, inside intake pipes also wet inside intake manifold, turbo not gone yet but wont be long, at that price and while i have to strip it down anyway, where have you ordered turbo from ? did you any tips for this job

[Upex]

I ordered manifold and turbo off ebay, from car part folks that sell lots of them and have good ratings. It was half the price of motor factors etc, so worth a go as can be changed again and still cheaper lol. All cooler seals were from bmw, as will the oil feed and return pipes and associated gaskets. Will also replace the seal for the compressor tube at turbo, might as well as all new then lol.

Tips, I really wish I'd have known that the turbo can be unbolted off the manifold through bottom of airbox hosing. I wasted a lot of time taking manifold and turbo off together and trying to get out from below, it will not go lol. When found the 3 holes, unbolted turbo and they came out without much faffing lol.

The forced air pipe (filter to turbo) has the 2 bolts, 5mm Allen, bottom one was a bitch to get to. Had to use a normal Allen key, stuck into the gap between front fan and shroud, then use a 5mm spanner to turn it.

I intend to do a how to guide as I struggled to find anything that was useful which I struggle to believe as not like these cars are rare. I didn't take pics when dismantling though, so need to take them when assembling and then create the guide backwards as it were. This won't be done for about 2 weeks though, perhaps longer, so not sure if it'll help you moose.

I could do with more bolt torques though, any chance you can check your manual for the oil feed pipe (crank case and turbo side) and the oil return line please, I can't seem to find much tech detail anywhere at all.

Have you or are you planning to remove and clean the intercooler? If so, what's needed to remove it, does bumper need to come off, or can it be dropped without excess part stripping? What will you clean it with, I've only ever done one, from my slk and used petrol but not sure if there a better choice?

[moose04]

hi upex, i wanted to no if you removed or you can the exhaust manifold from under neath without removing the airbox,i have no tools to remove the injectors etc, im replacing my turbo aswell. all i have it a trolley jack ramps etc, do you have a fully fitted garage ? lol
i have replaced the seals from turbo to intake manifold , egr valve replaced.i wasn't going to clean my intercooler as my turbo hasn't gone just yet (fingers crossed)
Cleaning the intercooler probley use alloy wheel cleaner if you have an alloy intercooler, leave it for 20 mins then pressure wash it out,
Ive added a couple of tourqe settings, my manual is the bentleys x5 made in the usa it doesent cover the 3.0d engine side only 3.0i non turbo (typical) it cost £85 think the haynes manual would of been better at half the price

[Upex]

Moose, I removed turbo and manifold from below. I just tried to remove in 1 piece, was a pig but came off. Would come out then though. Wasn't until much later I realised you can dismount turbo from the 3 bungs in airbox, arse! I've not removed the rocker/valve cover that includes airfilter housing, although it would make life a lot easier and much faster. Can't believe the airfilter housing is part of it, what a faff, should be seperate and bolted on!

I don't have a garage at all bud, trolly jack, axle stands and a creaper are all I'm using and doing it outside. Didnt know about front lift point mind, I had very little room underneath as used side mount under sills for Jack. Having been back out today, using the front lift point meant I could get both sides on stands and much more room, will be doing that next time, thanks pelican parts.

I've needed a lot of different extensions, including bendy ones, and various types of 5mm Allen key. So awkward to get to some bit on back, like manifold upper row of nuts. I've still not found the missing manifold nut, really hope it's not fallen in exhaust port, or this new turbo going to last all of 10 seconds.

Thanks for torque, will check pics later. I tried to find a haynes manual, didn't have any look, not sure they make them for these.

Cleaned the intake manifold again today, still loads of crap coming out. I also tried to test it for leaks, seems ok despite a couple of seams looking dodgy. Did it with duct tape on openings and blew into it with mouth whilst using very soapy water to check for bubbles, not that much pressure, but held what I could give it.

Also checked my alloy manifold again, and it has 4 tiny cracks starting, so think that was on its way if not already leaking when under pressure.

Jacked up car on the side and left for couple of hours, no more oil moved to that lower side in intercooler, so not going to clean it, looks like far too much work to remove just for a little clean.

Checked turbo out, and there is a bit of play in shaft. All blades look intact and no bits missing, so I think I got it in time before properly going pop and throwing shrapnel throughout the system. Airfilter was clean, no signs of any debris etc, so think these are more positives for not bathing with intercooler.

One thing I did drop a ball with (other than losing a manifold nut) is that I didn't drop the oil before removing everything. Thankfully it's only done circa 3k miles, so still pretty new, but has meant I can't warm it all up and get the shit circulating before dropping it, pants. Have dropped it today, and added 4l of fresh and dropped that as well, letting it drain for an hou with back up, front up, left up and right up each time, so is the best I could do. When refilled and all back together, I'll use it for a week and then drop the oil again just to be sure.

Stupid question, but how much oil should these have in them, I've pulled about 8.5l. Seems a lot to me, but was within high mark on dipstick before hand. I also sifted the dropped oil with a really strong magnet (neo n52 or whatever) and it came out clean, not a dot stuck it and oil residue in pan didn't have any bits in either. 

Will stick some pics up soon, just need a shower as stinking.

[moose04]

hi upex i'll start ordering manifold and turbo etc, i'll do this over the next bank holiday weekend now you've told me eveything can be done from under neath, im going to remove the inner wing to gain more access

I didnt want to do it from the top, injectors and me dont get on i end up breaking them off when stuck,

that nut youve lost get the wifes hoover some flexable pipe (garden pipe ish) gaffa tape it to the hose shove it into the hole where you think think the nut is, it just might save the day

ive been looking at premier turbos in Leicester take their turbo home return it in 14 days time just an extra £100 deposit think its £227

[Upex]

[quote="moose04"]
hi upex i'll start ordering manifold and turbo etc, i'll do this over the next bank holiday weekend now you've told me eveything can be done from under neath, im going to remove the inner wing to gain more access

I didnt want to do it from the top, injectors and me dont get on i end up breaking them off when stuck,

that nut youve lost get the wifes hoover some flexable pipe (garden pipe ish) gaffa tape it to the hose shove it into the hole where you think think the nut is, it just might save the day

ive been looking at premier turbos in Leicester take their turbo home return it in 14 days time just an extra £100 deposit think its £227
[/quote]

Sounds good. I went for not exchange, so can keep this one. No point jn me getting warranty, as it must be professionally fitted for most to be valid and also wasn't sure it was the turbo at fault, and can recore it if it is duff bearings etc, which I think it is. Oil leaking at turbo (not from either oil feeder or return) and bit of play in shaft:

https://youtu.be/XClV0FNqfZc

Never looked at a turbo close before, but I think this is too much play, anyone agree or disagree?

Sounds. Like you have a plan moose. I've not removed wheel liner, what access does that give, as thought it's all metal bodywork between wheel and turbo area?

I've ordered a boroscope, going to look in each exhaust port before putting manifold on lol. Just hope if it is in there, I can see it (ie not dropped into piston) and get it out lol.

Do you know your turbo number? Keen to see another example as mine proved a pain by not following aftermarket labelling.

[Upex]

Here are the turbo turbines or whatever they are called:

Compressor


Exhaust


These are the very small cracks found in exhaust manifold, they are small but clearly she was on the way:







This was my attempt at testing intake manifold, lol



I did find this though when cleaning the pipework I've removed. It's on the turbo compressor outlet, and has definitely seen better days. It's quite flimsy and some of each of the 4 blades have broken off, I'll be ordering a new one along with the rubber seal to refit with the new turbo:



edit, humm, this orange thing in last pic isn't coming up on realoem diagrams or part number search (13717793988), any ideas if it shouldn't be there, or if ok to not have it, as if can't get a new one, not keen on adding this back in as more of one of the fins is about to break off)