gearbox codes read,..what do they mean please ?

[jonnyivy]

Just got my car back from garage,...not a BMW garage, but they popped it on to diagnostics as a favour when it was in anyway today.
I got a sheet printed with the following codes..

6-sp. autom.transm. GS19.x
number of errors..2
4F85.... transmission ratio monitoring/clutch E....plausibility
4F95.... transmission monitoring clutch B-E......... plausability

ESP 8.0 version 1
number of errors.. 2
C1F42...... CAN message, transm.control unit.......  no communication


Anyone know how sad my gearbox is ??
Will it benefit from oil change or too late ?

Jonny

[X5Sport]

Neither are good news unfortunately.

The second one indicates a bushing failure on the input shaft and that causes the clutch 'E' to start to wear rapidly.  Once it fails you will be in limp mode.  Found the code for the same box on a 530i.  Slipping in 5th is the warning all is not well.

Looks like you need a gearbox rebuild 

[Smeeagain]

[quote="jonnyivy"]
Just got my car back from garage,...not a BMW garage, but they popped it on to diagnostics as a favour when it was in anyway today.
I got a sheet printed with the following codes..

6-sp. autom.transm. GS19.x
number of errors..2
4F85.... transmission ratio monitoring/clutch E....plausibility
4F95.... transmission monitoring clutch B-E......... plausability

ESP 8.0 version 1


number of errors.. 2
C1F42...... CAN message, transm.control unit.......  no communication


Anyone know how sad my gearbox is ??
Will it benefit from oil change or too late ?

Jonny
[/quote]
I have no ideas what the codes mean, and I do not for a moment doubt X5's input, but this is a simply an observation......

Previously you had posted about a lurch between 1st ad 2nd gear which several forum users have had. Some change the oil, some leave it, some do software updates, some just live with it and some get the box rebuilt.

But ...... my point is, and I have the lurch, rightly or wrongly, I haven't had it read for any errors. So I'm perhaps blissfully unaware and it may well pack up. But it might not and it might keep going for a while, so as long as you have breakdown cover, and are ready for the big bill that will follow, you may wish to consider just keep going till it fails. If you hands read the codes you would not necessarily be considering a rebuild. At the very least get the codes cleared then recheck them after another run.

When I bought my car it had 72k miles on it and I had the lurch, and I read all the horror stories about gearbox failures, and I also read up on the pros and cons of il changes and I decided to leave it. I did nothing other than cross my fingers, and that was free. Since then Ive put on 100k miles and more and it still goes. Yes maybe Im tempting fate, maybe it will pack up tomorrow, who knows. but with that additional mileage I could have required two rebuilds in that time so Ive soldiered on. I know who'll do the rebuild and I know how much it will cost so Im ready.

The only thing I would say is that I don't know what other potential damage can happen if you run it till it fails as opposed to biting the bullet now. If X5 is right (and he usually is), then a wearing clutch/gearbox will wear rapidly so it may be worth getting it down now than being stranded at the side of the road in the pitch dark and cold at this time of year.

At the end of the day it is your decision. Only you can decide. Let us know what happens, who you use for the work, what gets done, what it costs, etc

Smee

[grumpywurzel]

Exactly the same codes as my knackered box. http://xdrivers.co.uk/forum/index.php/t ... 729.0.html

[the shreksta]

if my gearbox ever goes tits up i will more than likely use these guys, they do the 6 speed rebuilds as i have spoke with them although the website only mentions the 5 speed.

the guys on the range rover forums rate them quite highly.

http://www.birchmotors4x4.co.uk/#bmw

my car has 111k on the clock and has no lurch at all so im feeling quite lucky lol

[jonnyivy]

Good reading from your thoughts,.... I'm phoning around at the moment to these specialists who deal with the ZF 6 speed box. What I have gathered from speaking to five garages now,.... the problem wont go away,... dont waste money on oil change,...that wont do anything ! All said the same , but to be a little optomistic I could say well they would tell you that if they want your custom .
So I've decided not to do the oil change.... two garages said my oil will most likely be fine being the 6 speed box.
There are various prices being offered,... mostly around the £1700 to £2000 mark inc. vat,...that is for worst case scinario,...full box rebuild inc. TC.
The one thing I will say is that the price between up North in Scotland and down south below Manchester is incredible. I will be travelling down with the X5 to get mines fixed, say no more!
The reason I feel that the box should be seen to is that it jumped into "trans failsafe" mode again yesterday while I was driving out of town, mainly happens 5th to 6th about 60-70mph when I give a little bit more throttle. Doesnt do it all the time, but seems to be when the oil has heated up 15 mins into a journey.
My wife usues it mostly,... only for popping about the town for her business matters,...it never faulters with her and she has gotten used to the lurch and says it doesnt bother her. I was impressed when I sat next to her and she gently nudges the gearstick into neutral just at the right moment when she comes to a stop.
I wouldn't say I'm in a hurry to get this fixed but I'd sooner rather than later to avoid andy bigger problems later on.

I will certainly give you the results when I get the ball rolling......
Thanks for your input...

Jonny

[grumpywurzel]

Hi Jonny,

Like I have said before you can nurse the box if you know how (i.e. not giving it the full beans in top gear), sounds like your Mrs has got the hang of the lurch so that will be ok.

Make sure whoever does knows what they are doing, I have seen plenty of adverts on eBay etc offering to replace the box or recon your old one for approx. £1K or less. Simply put they haven't done any of the real work, not used the correct OEM parts, used crap oil (the recommended oil alone costs a small fortune) and they often offer a 6 month warranty.

Personally I wouldn't do an oil change in your situation now, its too late and you will be just pouring money down the drain.

I think I probably paid top price for the work but I have peace of mind, the guys I used have been in business for donkey's years and they are highly recommended from many of the garages in our area. Also I know they used ZF parts and they asked/recommended the oil I used. The boss said he could use Comma oil or the equivalent cheap stuff if I wanted him to but again it would've been a complete waste of time.

Take your time finding the right place in your area, ring around a few garages and ask who they use for their gearbox work.

[jonnyivy]

good advise there bud,...  thanks,

I talked to the Liverpool lad today, who were mentioned in with a link on here,..  and I must say the guy I spoke to knew his stuff.
He was telling me what my symptoms were before I got him told !...only gave him the fault codes then he took over.
This guy sounded very genuine,..and quoted me £1650 total with vat for a worse case project.
This was for a replacement TC as he said he would be far happier to give me the warranty and peace of mind if he had this replaced.
Just like to say that of the others I talked to (advertising free info).. I cannot fault their diagnosis and help and advise. All the specialists were more than happy to explain everything they would do and their manner was impeccable. If I added up all the advise today I could say that my seals are leaking and not letting full pressure to work the clutches and not allowing lock-out on TC. This in time will cause more damage through clutch plate slippage.
I was advised that I COULD drive my X5 all the way down to either of the garages if I drove it with common sense and not blast it all the way down the motorway.
I've only got one more garage to phone tomorrow in Scotland for their quote ( hope its not the one with bad rep. ! )...  and I will make up my mind over weekend. Work can start as early as 10 days time..

Thanks again for helping,...

Jonny.

[X5Sport]

Good advice re the TC.  It was a small plastic part from mine that got into the oil pump, jammed it and that was that - in seconds the box was toast and all at less than 40,000 miles from brand new.  I was less than impressed, more so as the car was just out of BMW Warranty.

[the shreksta]

[quote="jonnyivy"]
good advise there bud,...  thanks,

I talked to the Liverpool lad today, who were mentioned in with a link on here,..  and I must say the guy I spoke to knew his stuff.
He was telling me what my symptoms were before I got him told !...only gave him the fault codes then he took over.
This guy sounded very genuine,..and quoted me £1650 total with vat for a worse case project.
This was for a replacement TC as he said he would be far happier to give me the warranty and peace of mind if he had this replaced.
Just like to say that of the others I talked to (advertising free info).. I cannot fault their diagnosis and help and advise. All the specialists were more than happy to explain everything they would do and their manner was impeccable. If I added up all the advise today I could say that my seals are leaking and not letting full pressure to work the clutches and not allowing lock-out on TC. This in time will cause more damage through clutch plate slippage.
I was advised that I COULD drive my X5 all the way down to either of the garages if I drove it with common sense and not blast it all the way down the motorway.
I've only got one more garage to phone tomorrow in Scotland for their quote ( hope its not the one with bad rep. ! )...  and I will make up my mind over weekend. Work can start as early as 10 days time..

Thanks again for helping,...

Jonny.
[/quote]

Yeah the guys at birch 4x4 really seem genuine with a reasonable price too. I plan on keeping my x5 and if it ever needs the box doing I shall be using those guys

[jonnyivy]

Thats the guys,... wouldn't it be good if they would let me take some photos of parts of the re-build to post on here ??.....  no harm in asking I suppose.......

[jonnyivy]

Very Interesting this gearbox of mines,....  for the last week or more I showed my wife how to slip the gearstick into neutral just before the car comes to a halt to avoid the "lurch" . She says its running really good and smooth gearchanges. 
Today I jumped into drivers seat for first time in a while and drove it 30 miles to next town. I can't get my head round how smooth the box is ??... even gave it extra on the straights and it just pulled right up through the gears !!
It never even sounded like it was slipping,...and the one time I forgot to put it into neutral at the traffic lights there was no lurching ??
Is my mind playing games with me ??

Surely if theres a fault its always going to be there ??
Only differance today is the temperature outside is a lot colder(1-2degrees)
I'm still on course to get gearbox rebuilt...but what if it just needs new oil ??

Please feel free to slap me around the head !!

Jonny

[Steamyrotter]

[quote="jonnyivy"]
Thats the guys,... wouldn't it be good if they would let me take some photos of parts of the re-build to post on here ??.....  no harm in asking I suppose.......
[/quote]

You  may be interested in mine!!!:-

http://www.xoutpost.com/regional-forums ... arbox.html

[jonnyivy]

Good reading your experience there,...no way would I try that !!
My problem is that there are many recommendations / warnings from so many differant specialists.
Some are saying it needs full rebuild, some saying it cant be put back together with out new mechatronics,..then I read the forums and some are saying just change the oil.
Of all the ZF specialists I have spoken to none have said changing the oil will do any good and it will be just throwing money down drain... but cant help thinking when its cold and thick it behaves much better in the gears.
I really dont think my transmission is so bad,..I'd be happy to drive it all day without breaking down but some warn this will eventually go bust.
I spoke briefly with the last owner who said it was a BMW mechanic who told him it only needed a new torque converter ? !!....
Isnt it strange that once you kinda know what might be wrong with your box you tend to concentrate more on its behavious and noise of engine while you drive. I'm always sitting with ears tuned into the sounds as we drive along lol...
Maybe still just dis-miss any of my own thoughts and just find the cash to get this rebuilt sooner rather than later....

[X5Sport]

It might be worth seeing if you can get a small amount (5ml or so) out via the filler plug underneath and see what colour it is and if it smells burnt.  If it is dark brown and opaque then the box is going bad and an oil change is more likely to result in failure anyway due to cleaning the crud out keeping some grip on the clutch packs.  If it is still relatively clean and clear then a simple change may be fine.

It really is a tricky one and with no guarantees either way if whether it will be fine, or die a week later.