So I start her up this morning (4.4i 03) and the most horrendous rattle / clattering is coming from the engine bay.
Called my guy out and he says its the timing chain - loads of money to fix and a bugger of a job.
Doing a search on here and seems he's right.
Anyone know of a good specialist in Surrey I could take it to ?
Cheers
Ro.
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££ Timing chain ££
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
Could be the chain tensioner so that plague the 4.6 engine, this can cause catastrophic failure if the car is used.
Probably better to get it lifted to the garage.
Someone posted a photo of the front of there x5 stripped in readiness to change the timing chain looks to be a massive job
Probably better to get it lifted to the garage.
Someone posted a photo of the front of there x5 stripped in readiness to change the timing chain looks to be a massive job
Last edited by Horizon on Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Kia Sorento KX3 2.2D 60 Plate Auto in black ( mine )
BMW E83 X3. 3.0d M Sport, 2008 in black ( now gone )
BMW E93 330i Convertible Msport 2007. ( Now sold )
VW Golf 2.0 TDI 140 GT 2010 ( now sold )
Now Sold 55 plate, X5, 3.0 D Sport. Silv
BMW E83 X3. 3.0d M Sport, 2008 in black ( now gone )
BMW E93 330i Convertible Msport 2007. ( Now sold )
VW Golf 2.0 TDI 140 GT 2010 ( now sold )
Now Sold 55 plate, X5, 3.0 D Sport. Silv
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
Commiserations Ro
I am just going through the saga with my 4.6 why oh why do BMW (and Audi for that matter) use so much plastic in their engines a few heat cycles and the plastic is done and waiting to fail. A chevy small block is half the cost cheaper to maintain and lasts for ever.
I have a warranty on mine I hope you do too? With mine its oil pump and guides not sure which went first guides causing pump failure or the other way around, the car is well maintained and only covered 90k.
Mine is having an engine out total rebuild, all bearings, piston rings, oil pump, water pump gaskets etc with labour the bill will be around £5.5k the build is being done by a BMW Porsche specialist. Having to go through this is bad enough but waiting for parts has dragged it out then the icing on the cake piston rings arrive and they have been sent a set of 6 ???
I am just going through the saga with my 4.6 why oh why do BMW (and Audi for that matter) use so much plastic in their engines a few heat cycles and the plastic is done and waiting to fail. A chevy small block is half the cost cheaper to maintain and lasts for ever.
I have a warranty on mine I hope you do too? With mine its oil pump and guides not sure which went first guides causing pump failure or the other way around, the car is well maintained and only covered 90k.
Mine is having an engine out total rebuild, all bearings, piston rings, oil pump, water pump gaskets etc with labour the bill will be around £5.5k the build is being done by a BMW Porsche specialist. Having to go through this is bad enough but waiting for parts has dragged it out then the icing on the cake piston rings arrive and they have been sent a set of 6 ???
4.6is X5 Estoril Blue (current)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
Wow £5.5 k !! now i'm really worried !
I have to weigh up what the car is worth compared to how much this will all cost.
Its a 2003 4.4i Sport with 120k on the clock. Realistically its not worth more than £3-4k absolute max.
Its in great shape otherwise - mainly because I have spent so much ££ on it in the last 19 months......
Gearbox rebuild
Alternator
Starter Motor
Suspension
Water Pump
etc etc.....its rapidly becoming a money pit and I have to draw the line somewhere.
In my case the car drove fine, just with a terrible rattle from the front of the engine.
I wonder - does that mean its not gone pop completely or might it be something that's been caught early and the potential repair bill might not be so big - as I would imagine a total failure would render the car un-drivable. Mine drove fine back to my house (about 2 miles) just making a horrendous noise.
I am hoping the rattling was a really early sign and potentially that makes it easier to fix - or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.....
I need to get the car transported to my local specialist but - as always - work gets in the way and I am away for a few days, but its giving me a few days to decide what to do - scrap that car or bite the bullet and get it fixed.
I have to weigh up what the car is worth compared to how much this will all cost.
Its a 2003 4.4i Sport with 120k on the clock. Realistically its not worth more than £3-4k absolute max.
Its in great shape otherwise - mainly because I have spent so much ££ on it in the last 19 months......
Gearbox rebuild
Alternator
Starter Motor
Suspension
Water Pump
etc etc.....its rapidly becoming a money pit and I have to draw the line somewhere.
In my case the car drove fine, just with a terrible rattle from the front of the engine.
I wonder - does that mean its not gone pop completely or might it be something that's been caught early and the potential repair bill might not be so big - as I would imagine a total failure would render the car un-drivable. Mine drove fine back to my house (about 2 miles) just making a horrendous noise.
I am hoping the rattling was a really early sign and potentially that makes it easier to fix - or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.....
I need to get the car transported to my local specialist but - as always - work gets in the way and I am away for a few days, but its giving me a few days to decide what to do - scrap that car or bite the bullet and get it fixed.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
The problem I think is even just replacing the chain guides needs so much taken off the front of the car most of the bill is almost all labour cost.
Particularly at garage prices, fortunately for me the Warranty company sanctioned the repair. Just stripping it for inspection was a days work, then the Warranty company asked for more to be taken off then a further wait for their engineer to visit and agree the repair. The guy doing the work is bored looking at my car blocking one of his ramps.
Difficult decision I feel for for you with so much invested in the car already, what about an engine swap? Or as its so much labour cost DIY repair.
Particularly at garage prices, fortunately for me the Warranty company sanctioned the repair. Just stripping it for inspection was a days work, then the Warranty company asked for more to be taken off then a further wait for their engineer to visit and agree the repair. The guy doing the work is bored looking at my car blocking one of his ramps.
Difficult decision I feel for for you with so much invested in the car already, what about an engine swap? Or as its so much labour cost DIY repair.
4.6is X5 Estoril Blue (current)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
My DIY skills stretch to replacing bulbs when they go, anything more than that is just asking for trouble !
No I need to make a decision and soon. I have another car to use (our mint E36 328i Cab) so what to do.....
Another question.......if I decide not to repair it, what would people recommend as a way of getting shot of the car ? Ebay it highlighting the issue ? Autotrader sold as seen ? Are there any specialist "we buy any car" types that buy cars with mechanical problems ?
Cheers
Ro.
No I need to make a decision and soon. I have another car to use (our mint E36 328i Cab) so what to do.....
Another question.......if I decide not to repair it, what would people recommend as a way of getting shot of the car ? Ebay it highlighting the issue ? Autotrader sold as seen ? Are there any specialist "we buy any car" types that buy cars with mechanical problems ?
Cheers
Ro.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
(Rich) Berkley Motor Works Haslemere (used him ex master tech bmw & used to own a prefacelift E53 4.4i )
(Chris) Chris Plummer Aldershot (ex master tech - spoke to him & was recommended him)
(Mark) MJF enginerring Beare Greene - smaller outfit but really helpful, recommended to me, honest accomodating guy.
(Andy) Walkers Autotech. (used him :An ex bmw tech and changed rocker gaskets on mine 9 years ago.)
If noisy dont drive it - likely the plastic guides worn or damaged. Lots of other bits to get to, various gaskets etc. There are posts either here or xoutpost which list what parts are likely involved. Waste of time ignoring associated bits whikst under there & amongst it.
Box and those plastic chain uides are the two likely biggest bills on the V8 E53.
Be mindful some will be reluctant to quote without seeing the car which is a bit of an issue as you ideally dont want to drive it.
I would level with them on phone - explain decision to keep or scrap is pivotal on coast due to value & make it politely clear you need a bottom line all inclusive price parts, sundries, vat. If time is an issue ask what woukd be earlest workshop date to book it in.
I can give other names north or south of Surrey.
(Chris) Chris Plummer Aldershot (ex master tech - spoke to him & was recommended him)
(Mark) MJF enginerring Beare Greene - smaller outfit but really helpful, recommended to me, honest accomodating guy.
(Andy) Walkers Autotech. (used him :An ex bmw tech and changed rocker gaskets on mine 9 years ago.)
If noisy dont drive it - likely the plastic guides worn or damaged. Lots of other bits to get to, various gaskets etc. There are posts either here or xoutpost which list what parts are likely involved. Waste of time ignoring associated bits whikst under there & amongst it.
Box and those plastic chain uides are the two likely biggest bills on the V8 E53.
Be mindful some will be reluctant to quote without seeing the car which is a bit of an issue as you ideally dont want to drive it.
I would level with them on phone - explain decision to keep or scrap is pivotal on coast due to value & make it politely clear you need a bottom line all inclusive price parts, sundries, vat. If time is an issue ask what woukd be earlest workshop date to book it in.
I can give other names north or south of Surrey.
Gone - 2002 E53 X5 4.4i Sport (Pre Facelift) Owned 2006-2016.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
As for what to do if getting out......
1. Sell without saying anything - not an option unless you are brave &/ or a total git.
2. Ebay, gum tree, sold as non runner spares & repairs.
3. See if any indepedent bmw repairers would want it (Andy at walkers maybe sells some he properly fixes).
4. Strip it and sell bits yourself then scrap whats left at dismantlers.
If keeping for 4 years and funds genuinely allow fix it, otherwise be prepared to say goodbye.
Apologies for unemotive replies but busy with other stuff & calls - in any case emotion should ideally NOT cloud any decisions over and above funding.
1. Sell without saying anything - not an option unless you are brave &/ or a total git.
2. Ebay, gum tree, sold as non runner spares & repairs.
3. See if any indepedent bmw repairers would want it (Andy at walkers maybe sells some he properly fixes).
4. Strip it and sell bits yourself then scrap whats left at dismantlers.
If keeping for 4 years and funds genuinely allow fix it, otherwise be prepared to say goodbye.
Apologies for unemotive replies but busy with other stuff & calls - in any case emotion should ideally NOT cloud any decisions over and above funding.
Last edited by AW8 on Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gone - 2002 E53 X5 4.4i Sport (Pre Facelift) Owned 2006-2016.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
To be honest if you are not in a position to diy than I would ebay it and just be honest. I have sold many cars and bikes with issues and often people pay more than they should. Its a kind of tunnel vision thing where they think it will be a quick or cheap fix, which often can be if labour costs aren't an issue.
Ultimately you will have to weigh the repair cost against the value and decided that way.
Ultimately you will have to weigh the repair cost against the value and decided that way.
X5 40d
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
As always - many thanks for those who responded.
I am going to have a ring round a few recommended specialists (AW8 thanks for the list - a couple of those have been recommended by others) and get a true idea of cost to fix or if they perhaps may want the car as is (like you say difficult to get it assessed as I am not driving the car in its current state and doing more damage)
If that cost is likely to exceed £2k (think it will) I will likely eBay it drawing attention to the fault. I wouldn't try to hide it, it's not in my nature !
Dismantling for parts is a possibility, I recently put 20" Le Mans alloys & new tyres on the car - those alone must be worth £5-600. I just wonder if a) I would have the time and b) how long before the wife really kicks off at there being a dismantled X5 on the drive ! Worth the hassle - nope !
It is an emotional decision - I love the car, the kids love the car, the dogs love the car (!) the thought of scrapping it or selling it for peanuts kills me - but you do what you have to do.
Ro.
I am going to have a ring round a few recommended specialists (AW8 thanks for the list - a couple of those have been recommended by others) and get a true idea of cost to fix or if they perhaps may want the car as is (like you say difficult to get it assessed as I am not driving the car in its current state and doing more damage)
If that cost is likely to exceed £2k (think it will) I will likely eBay it drawing attention to the fault. I wouldn't try to hide it, it's not in my nature !
Dismantling for parts is a possibility, I recently put 20" Le Mans alloys & new tyres on the car - those alone must be worth £5-600. I just wonder if a) I would have the time and b) how long before the wife really kicks off at there being a dismantled X5 on the drive ! Worth the hassle - nope !
It is an emotional decision - I love the car, the kids love the car, the dogs love the car (!) the thought of scrapping it or selling it for peanuts kills me - but you do what you have to do.
Ro.
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the shreksta
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Re: ££ Timing chain ££
To keep the cost down why not remove the engine with a few mates and drop it off to a builder then re-fill yourself, that would save a shed load in labour
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
The shreksta..........I wasn't expecting that advice.
Can you please explain why you think the engine would need removing to do this job ?
Can you please explain why you think the engine would need removing to do this job ?
Last edited by AW8 on Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gone - 2002 E53 X5 4.4i Sport (Pre Facelift) Owned 2006-2016.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
You really need a hydraulic lift to get the engine out as it is a long lump. And a heavy duty engine hoist. Once the front end is off access is very easy to the front of the engine, it only takes a couple of hours.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
I accept a hydraulic lift would aid engine removal & that removing engine would make access easier.
I was not aware TIS or other manual stipulated this as an engine out job.
I don't think BMW independents I use would accept customers delivering an engine, for them to change chain guides, & customer to collect block later.
Has anyone actually done the above, (not a complete diy chain guide replacement) , & if so at what cash saving ?
I was not aware TIS or other manual stipulated this as an engine out job.
I don't think BMW independents I use would accept customers delivering an engine, for them to change chain guides, & customer to collect block later.
Has anyone actually done the above, (not a complete diy chain guide replacement) , & if so at what cash saving ?
Last edited by AW8 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gone - 2002 E53 X5 4.4i Sport (Pre Facelift) Owned 2006-2016.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Site & Forum Admin Team Member.
Re: ££ Timing chain ££
you do NOT need to remove the engine to do the chains and guides, its not a difficult job for someone with moderate spanner wielding skills , as others have pointed out the special tools for timing the cams up are available to hire via E bay and a few days off work taken as holiday would see you right.
Depending on your location I would even be prepared to assist over a weekend for tea and sandwiches
Depending on your location I would even be prepared to assist over a weekend for tea and sandwiches
Jaguar F type
X5 4.4 facelift
Vauxhall Vectra diesel daily driver
X5 4.4 facelift
Vauxhall Vectra diesel daily driver