Turbo gone, mechanical noise from engine!

[paddythemac]

Hi all, first post here, please bear with me. Bought my 2001 X5 diesel in July, broke down in France in August. It was an audible but not particularly loud "pop" on acceleration, followed by a loss of power and black smoke. BMW dealer over there diagnosed a split inlet manifold which I replaced upon getting the car back from them (took a month to recover it back to UK!).  At the same time, based upon info picked up here - thanks to all concerned for that - I replaced the oil breather (with the vortex model) & air filter which apparently fixed the problem; the car was right as rain for two weeks, but then...

Similar problem occurred, slight noise on acceleration (more of a click this time) then loss of power and this time white smoke.. lots of it!

Pulled over, called tow truck, you know the drill..

Checked the bits I'd done (manifold, oil breather etc) and no problems there, suspicion falls then on the turbo.

Complication is that now, attempts to crank the car over invoke horrible clattering mechanical noise (didnt occur last time) and I think it's possible that the turbo has exploded and thrown bits of metal into the engine!

I'm not sure what to do now as I did anticipate doing the turbo replacement myself (ok, with the aid of mate) at his place, so I got the car towed there. However if it's a big overhaul/replace engine job then I may pass it on to a better equipped repair shop, so opinions would help on what may have happened and how to test/check before I start dismantling or call a tow truck again :'(

Also, maybe there's also something that I haven't done which may have been at fault for both of the incidences above (e.g., blocked cat?). I could just be unlucky, but it seems odd for the same basic issue, i.e. power failure on acceleration, to happen twice in a couple of weeks.

[X5Sport]

Um.  OK if you can you probably need to pull the injectors and stick a scope into the bores to see if there is anything in the cylinders.  The lack of clearance (millimetres) in each means there won't be room for very much in there and you may be OK unless there is a hole in a piston.  Given how the turbo runs it is unlikely there are bits in the engine itself, especially as it turns over.

It might be in the turbo itself and the impeller assembly bearing has gone allowing the whole thing to rattle.  You could take the inlet manifold off and check it is clear of shrapnel, and then dis the turbo from the exhaust and inlet to have a look at things.  A failed exhaust side impeller should thrown buts down the exhaust, and the inlet side should throw them into the inter cooler (I think?). 

Getting a look at the turbo impeller assembly would be a good place to start and give you an idea of anything 'missing'

It might even just be a broken shield.....if you're really lucky

[paddythemac]

Hey X5Sport, thanks for the ideas, nice to know there are knowledgeable people out there prepared to help -  much appreciated! 

Bit of an update re the mechanical noise, I had an Auto Electrician (friend of a friend) look at it this evening. Turns out that the starter motor seems to be making the noise; the battery is a suspected basket case and it's causing the SM to play up. It's been starting ok up to now which has hidden this problem, but he thinks maybe the lack of charge in the thing may be causing the SM to misbehave.

He also shares your idea that the turbo might not have thrown metal in the engine so once the battery has been charged/replaced we can turn it over and start investigating. No fault codes from the diagnosis yet either..?

That said, I'm feeling a bit more confident now that we will be able to fix it ourselves. Battery is charging overnight, so we'll have another look at that in the morning. Once done I'll start dismantling, following your tips below re the turbo.

I'll update tomorrow as soon as I have anything to report. Love the machine when its on the road (beats my old Merc ML hands down), but not when it's broke..

Thanks again, keep thinking for anything else you can post that may have caused these failures..

Ps with cars, I never get really lucky - but wish me luck!

[Steamyrotter]

I had a really bad noise on my E39 once when trying to start..
Turned out to be the starter motor was loose!!

tightened up and was ok from there onwards...

Just hope yours is something similarly easy too..

[X5Sport]

3.0d starters are also known to fail, especially if a Denso/Magnetti Marelli version.  It will make the car sound as if you have a dead battery.  The battery will probably be fine and if you put a DC current clamp on it should record around 180A when cranking.  My E53 one drew in excess on 900A and I've just changed the same version on our 3 series which was drawing 540A.

Pig of a job on a 3er as it's a b8st'd to get at.  New starters are £120 from ECP (Bosch version).

[paddythemac]

Update Fri pm, didnt get on it til late today so I've not done much, but a battery charge got it going, there's still a clattering noise which sounds like the starter has decided to put in for early retirement, so you're probably right with that - it looks like it's going to be a long, dirty weekend, and not in the way I'd like

With the EGR off; the pipe going into it (& thence to the manifold) is full of oil, so added to the white smoke from the exhaust, it looks like the main problem is turbo related, then we'll have to tackle the starter motor..

Still unsure tho as to why these things all happen at once, but I suppose at 120k you should expect to have some work to do. I'll put some more info up when I get nearer the end of the job, in case it helps someone else, I just hope it stays fine this weekend..

thanks to all for their input!

[Sanj]

[quote="paddythemac"]
Hey X5Sport, thanks for the ideas, nice to know there are knowledgeable people out there prepared to help -  much appreciated!  [/quote]

You got the wrong guy....  ;D

Oh and yes X5Sport I managed to free myself from under that flooring!

Hope all is well.

[X5Sport]

Steamy and I have had too many 'dirty weekends' under our cars! >:(

[Sanj]

Too many shades of grey?

[X5Sport]

[quote="Sanj"]
Too many shades of grey?
[/quote]

Getting the oil out of everything afterwards is just so difficult these days.... O:-)

[Sanj]

Oooheer missus!

[Steamyrotter]

[quote="X5Sport"]
Steamy and I have had too many 'dirty weekends' under our cars! >:(
[/quote]

[paddythemac]

Hi All, sorry for the delay in replying, I've been away for a while, but I promised an update for those who're interested - so if it helps someone else, fair enough. After much cursing and struggling, we fitted a recon turbo. If you take your time and clean everything pathologically, it's not too bad a job. If anyone in the NW needs to get hold of one, I can recommend "Biturbo" in Stockport, he's a good guy and knows his turbos (its all he supplies). Providing you don't take it to pieces, it's a straight swap out job, mine cost £259 after the swap.

It was also indeed the case that the starter motor had lunched itself - as in, part of it had literally broken off and disappeared - so that had to be changed also. Needless to say I didn't think there was much point in putting the lottery on that weekend.. :-\
It's a b*itch of a job, but a physical challenge more than rocket science and after fitting a new one, we had a bit of a scare as the engine refused to turn over until we turned it by hand. Once cracked, it started ok every time.

Anyway, job done, it behaved itself on a 1600mile round trip to France and back, its now running ok but still getting a puff of grey smoke on acceleration?

Next up, I think the front thrust arm bushes are on the way out, as I'm getting steering wheel shimmy, even braking gently from 55mph - 40mph. If only these things would happen when the weather is nice..

Happy fixing, people!

[storminmike]

[quote="paddythemac"]
Hi All, sorry for the delay in replying, I've been away for a while, but I promised an update for those who're interested - so if it helps someone else, fair enough. After much cursing and struggling, we fitted a recon turbo. If you take your time and clean everything pathologically, it's not too bad a job. If anyone in the NW needs to get hold of one, I can recommend "Biturbo" in Stockport, he's a good guy and knows his turbos (its all he supplies). Providing you don't take it to pieces, it's a straight swap out job, mine cost £259 after the swap.

It was also indeed the case that the starter motor had lunched itself - as in, part of it had literally broken off and disappeared - so that had to be changed also. Needless to say I didn't think there was much point in putting the lottery on that weekend.. :-\
It's a b*itch of a job, but a physical challenge more than rocket science and after fitting a new one, we had a bit of a scare as the engine refused to turn over until we turned it by hand. Once cracked, it started ok every time.

Anyway, job done, it behaved itself on a 1600mile round trip to France and back, its now running ok but still getting a puff of grey smoke on acceleration?

Next up, I think the front thrust arm bushes are on the way out, as I'm getting steering wheel shimmy, even braking gently from 55mph - 40mph. If only these things would happen when the weather is nice..

Happy fixing, people!
[/quote]

Did I read that wrong or did he swap for £259 or did you take it out yourself?

Never heard of a company called biturbo....and google didn't show anything?

[paddythemac]

Price was for the turbo only, I had to do it myself, though a more able mate helped me out a lot tbh.. It's an exchange price, so you buy a recon one from him at £359 and give him your old busted one after the job is done,  he then gives you £100 back.

Its fiddly and time consuming rather than difficult to do yourself, as there are quite a few bits to take off before you get to it, but it's "mechanical" on an E53, in that there are no electronics to program or reset, though I reckon you'd get the work done at a good independent for around £200 labour if you don't fancy the job. Website is www.biturbocars.co.uk, he also sells on eBay, hope that helps.