VW caught cheating emissions checks!

[X5Sport]

Seems VAG decided to fit some form of software code to some of their cars on the US market to falsify emission data whilst the cars were undergoing regular checks - similar to our MOT!  Golf, A3, Jetta, Passat between 2009 and 2015 for some models.

Around 500,000 now need recalling to remove the software and for emission mods.  Don't expect discounts for a while whilst customers pay the £11bn cost to fix them all.  One comment I have seen suggests that perhaps the published performance bhp/torque figures will have to be revised, possibly downwards!  An expensive error for which one hopes heads may roll for.

I wonder if they have pulled the same stunt in the EU - and are about to need to recall here too?  New engines just going into service - hope mine is 'clean' in both code and emission terms.

Has to be one of the most irresponsible things I've heard on in recent times!  The other biggie being GMs denial of their ignition fault - which led to approx 100 deaths.

[jaynana]

Just been reading about this, VW group has lost 23% of market value some $15bn!!

Unbelievable cheats - some sw that detects when emission testing is happening and to make the car run leaner! A3 caught as well. BMW X5 tested and passed!
Beware Audi, Porsche too!


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[X5Sport]

Having got a Skoda with the brand new 2.0L EA288 EU6 TDI engine on it, I will be asking whether there is a cheat code buried in its ECU?  Same engine in the 2015 Passat.  My guess is that if there was a 'cheat' it will be removed before the car is built next week.

German press now reporting that the German Gov't is also investigating.

The worry has to be just how widespread is this amongst other manufacturers?  I can't believe that this wasn't known about at quite senior level.  Perhaps the VW CEO is going to need a new job......banking should be a good bet  )

[535dboy]

I wondered why the road tax on mine was only £10/year )

[shadrack]

do you think maybe the whole system will be reviewed so the mpg claims are genuine road figures as oppose to all this lab tested crap that puts figue about 30% higher than real world

[AW8]

When looking to the various news articles on this the financial cost to VW is huge. Share prices, emission related fines per unit, recalls and associated costs, civil litigation, industry fines other legal actions and of course any impact on future sales. In fairness to them the CEO has openly said they have screwed up.

It wil be interesting to see how this pans out. I suspect this may be tip I the iceberg (apologies for the ironic cliche). Time will tell how many global markets, models are affected by this and indeed whether or not and other manufacturers will or will not be involved.

As for the comments re mpg made by shadrack - Whilst this is arguably a relative side issue I too would like to see more realistic mpg testing done, however, I accept that in reality it is difficult to set up useful testing that is same for all vehicles and accurately simulates various driving scenarios for every car....(espcially difficult for manuals as revs and optimum economy efficiency reva for gear changes will vary between cars depending on simulated factors).

[Turks]

The real question is, how many of us care? I don't.

This is the world we live in, where things are done to meet targets and be judged on stats. Clever marketing masks the truth everywhere we look. Flawed testing gives the wrong impression.

If any of you have seen the episode of Top Gear when Clarkson tests the M3 against the Prius, then this shows you that despite the figures on paper, real world scenarios blow these figures out of the water.

Look at foods - the labelling is just wrong. "No added salt", "No added sugar", "Part of your 5-a-day", "Only 1% fat". It is well known that the samples provided for nutritional analysis differ from those put on the shelves for consumers.

We all get taught to drive a car a certain way (in order to pass a test) but in the real world we all drive differently.

What makes me laugh is that this is an issue for the US. A country where they all drive grossly oversized cars with inefficient engines. A country where over 79% of their Power Generation is from burning fossil fuels. A country that has refused to embrace diesel's efficient engines, due to Petrol being cleaner etc.

VW have been pushing the boundaries of efficient diesel engines (look at the Le Mans Audi) and in real world driving, us as consumers can confirm how efficient they are - they are brilliant, and perform very very well.


Turks.

[jaynana]

the truth is - i do care actually, as much as i drive guzzlers i don't want to be lied to! i like to know wht damage i do!  )

same goes for the bloody food labeling you have mentioned!

i dont want a world of more lies and more deception, i aspire to have one with less.

btw re. Petrol and Diesel - i'm no scientist, but the debate about which is better is by far not closed. isn't Diesel now not shamed upon by some due to particulate matter. i think Paris and London both have plans to ban diesels in ultra low emission zones due to this..

in any case i wonder if it's only VW, things like this tend to work across cartels..

[AW8]

Putting aside any legal or ethical issues.

If buying a new car many want to know that the manufacturer will still be around in say 10 years.....I might also be concerned re future residuals...With various reports and allegations on the VW story one wonders if VW will be able to ride this out or not.

If they don't go down the costs of this will need to come from somewhere.....Retail margins, parts, labour etc etc.

I suspect the financial cost to VW of any folk later migrating to other brands would be less if other manufacturers are named. I wonder if any VW engineers are being tasked to look into accuracy of competitors emission claims.

If I was a major VW investor/shareholder/backer then I would be hoping brand migration would me minimized by other car makers also screwing up.

[jaynana]

thx mods, and Peter_R for bringing it up, fortunately or unfortunately a reply i wanted to post in support last night didn't like to get posted, via mobile!

back to the topic, another interesting learning,..at-least for me

we always talk about guzzlers and polluters in the US vs how clean EU is,

see how the various geographies stack up on emissions..

sounds like the US has been on Euro 6 equalant for donkeys years whereas EU is only getting there in 2016!? US is moving even further, by 2017/18!

elsewhere today i read the US tolerance level for NO (what the VAgs have cheated) is 40 times more stringent than the tolerance currently in the EU!

[X5Sport]

The EU tests are very lax indeed, and the biggest issue is that VCA (in the UK) don't witness everything and the cars used for the tests are 'golden' specially prepared for test purposes.  Reduced weight, no options, doors etc taped up, wipers removed, fluids at minimum levels - the list just goes on.

This is why no one driving modern cars can get remotely close to the 'test data' figures.

In telecoms approvals, if a manufacturer submitted a golden sample it was immediately rejected as non-representative of the real market offering.  The current car system allows 'self certification' and the regulators are all 'light touch' because it costs too much for EU Governments to do a proper job.  Manufacturers can elect to do their testing in the easiest environment - so they do.

New tests due in 2017, but the motor manufacturers want to delay that another three years.

It was only because a US University got suspicious of the real figures that VW got caught.  And now it seems they've been at it in the EU as well.

[pvr]

Ah, so a Uni was the source of the discovery? I had not managed to find how they got found out. Who told anyone that they had the software as a self confession seems unlikely.

The major value that is discussed here is just NO and not CO2, right?

[535dboy]

[quote="pvr"]
Ah, so a Uni was the source of the discovery? I had not managed to find how they got found out. Who told anyone that they had the software as a self confession seems unlikely.

The major value that is discussed here is just NO and not CO2, right?
[/quote]

Oh so you've left the sheep alone at last!?

[Insight G40]

Ironic I ditched VW after 20 odd years to buy my first BMW, three months before this happened.

Tempted to buy shares in VW though, although this will hurt them in the short to medium term future, can't see this having a long term detrimental effect on them though.

[X5Sport]

Best time to be a lawyer though.  Only two types......those already instructed by VW and those about to be O:-)