Different Fuel - Different Car

ex540d · Post by **ex540d** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:24 pm

Hello,

I just thought i would share my recent experience with the X5.
I have always used Tesco regular diesel in my 2010 X5 40d M Sport (45,000 miles) as i get 20p off per litre voucher with my shopping. However, after reading on the internet about the poor quality of Tesco fuel i decided i would try a different fuel.

I went for BP Ultimate diesel, I also put some Redex in as i bought a 4 pack from Costco for £16. 1 Bottle = 200 Litres fuel.
The BP ultimate were only 5p per litre more than the regular BP diesel too which isnt bad. I know it does differ from Garage to Garage, I have seen a 20p per litre difference in regular BP & BP ultimate before.

Well all i can say the car has just changed, and for the good !
The engine sound is much quieter and the power delivery is much much smoother. I have also noticed it achieves an extra 2 mpg. I have burnt 3 tanks of Bp Ultimate in it so far and i have decided i will not be using supermarket fuels again.

And i can assure you this is not a placebo effect because i didn't mention anything to the wife about it and when she drove it she could certainly tell a difference. The car is unmodified purchased from Bmw 10 months ago.

So if you do not use Super Diesel already and you have a petrol station near you which has it on offer, give it a try, you may just be pleasantly surprised !

Cheers

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:31 pm

It's a higher Cetane rating, hence the performance change. A bit like 2* and 4* petrol used to be.

Benefits outweighed by the costs of it around here, especially if you are also adding Redex (unnecessary on a regular basis).

Supermarket fuel is the same as BP normal fuels. Tesco fuel comes from exactly the same place as BP fuel does. It's all made to the same standard and if it didn't meet it then it would be taken off the market by the DfT. The only difference is additives.

Tests were run a few years back and found no difference. There was an issue with a small number of Tesco fuel stations which wasn't the fuel, but the distribution centre tankage which was contaminated.

The rest of what you find on line is myth and hyperbole perpetuated by those who don't really know and want to keep the story going.

We have a couple of members on here in the industry who have said the web stuff about supermarket fuel is myth and at best misleading.

graemeX5 · Post by **graemeX5** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:01 am

I read thi with interest and can I ask why when you put premium unleaded in a car or premium dieselise a diesel, the relevant car it appears to perform better than when it is run with regular unleaded or diesel ?

The reason for asking is the cars seem and I say seem to run feel better with the high octane rating fuels.

Graeme

ImaginativeTruth · Post by **ImaginativeTruth** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:22 am

I only use Esso Supreme diesel.

In my old 320d e46, I got about 80-100 miles more per tank, no soot on acceleration and a nicer smoother engine.

In my 40d, I get 700 to a tank at legal limits (and not much motorway driving) on Supreme. Can't say it runs smoother or faster than regular fuel though.

My brother uses dipetane and swears by it.

BMW in my car say NO ADDITIVES. I don't know why, but I don't put any in this car for that reason. No restriction on the e46 by BMW...

ex540d · Post by **ex540d** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:33 pm

All i am saying is, that i feel my X5 40d runs a lot better using Bp Ultimate Diesel than it does running Tesco diesel. I do not feel a difference when running it in my F10 535d. However, I feel that some people replying on here are contradicting what i am trying to say. I do know that Tesco and BP fuel is the same when it leaves the refineries and it is the additives which are added on site which makes them different.
But am i right in saying the end result after the additives are added is that BP fuel is better than Tesco ? Yes or no ?

Also, it may say no fuel additives on the cap, But in the Bmw dealerships now they have it for sale !
Its just to cover themselves to stop you putting rubbish in your tank i presume.

I also think, these are such expensive cars with top quality engines when it comes to refueling, why opt for the cheapest available ? Surely it makes sense to put the higher cetane premium fuel in a 60k motor if it is available? After all they aren't just runabouts which have been picked up off the scrapyard for a few quid.

After extensive research i have found out the typical cetane values of some of the different diesels available.

BP Ultimate: 55
Bp Regular: 53

Shell V Power: 55
Shell Regular: 53

Total: 53
Tesco: 51
Costco: 51 (Liverpool & Oldham) As of 20/09/2015

ImaginativeTruth · Post by **ImaginativeTruth** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:00 pm

I don't think you will get a yes or no. It's subjective.

Personally I wouldn't spend £40k cash on a motor and fuel it from tesco. Everyone is different.

I always use Esso Supreme, car now up to 730 miles a tank (refilled today).

Turks · Post by **Turks** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:05 am

This argument is had with the Petrol versions too (Octane rather than Cetane), and it is not subjective. It is fact that if you have a higher Octane or Cetane value, it is easier on the engine components due to either the resistance to detonation (Octane) or ignition delay (Cetane). You also get better performance from your engines.

It is up to you as the consumer as to whether you see value in paying the extra for the higher rated fuels. You are likely to get more miles out of your tank, and it is better for your engine - not that standard fuel is any problem at all for your engine. Your car is mapped to cope with poor fuels or lower Octane / Cetane without any issue so even your 60k motor will cope absolutely fine on Supermarket standard fuels.

I don't agree with people saying you are being ripped off for buying these higher rated fuels. State the facts and let the person make the decision that they are being ripped off. I could tell you all that you are being ripped off by buying a latte from Costa... but some people like it and are happy to pay for it.

Personally, I pay for these higher rated fuels and I know the facts very well (I work in upstream Oil & Gas). This is because I really cannot be arsed having a container of additive in my garage that I have to measure out every time I fill my car depending on how many litres I put in... my time is worth more than that too. Also, I cannot see my missus doing this when I'm not around. I like that the car feels smoother, and that I get a few more miles out of my tank.

[quote="Peter_R"]
Smoke out of the exhaust IS OVERFUELING. Nothing more, nothing less.
[/quote]

To clarify, in this case of a Diesel, the smoke is Unburnt Fuel. If this has reduced by using an higher rated fuel then that is purely because the ignition delay is reduced meaning the Diesel combusts in the engine sooner and giving more chance for all of the injected fuel to combust rather than carry over into exhaust.

This is why you get more miles and better performance from higher rated fuels. More of the fuel is being burnt and therefore releasing more of its energy... get up to speed faster or by pressing the accelerator less to get up to speed or maintain speed.

Turks.

kjb1 · Post by **kjb1** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:56 am

[quote="ImaginativeTruth"]
I only use Esso Supreme diesel.

In my old 320d e46, I got about 80-100 miles more per tank, no soot on acceleration and a nicer smoother engine.

In my 40d, I get 700 to a tank at legal limits (and not much motorway driving) on Supreme. Can't say it runs smoother or faster than regular fuel though.

My brother uses dipetane and swears by it.

BMW in my car say NO ADDITIVES. I don't know why, but I don't put any in this car for that reason. No restriction on the e46 by BMW...
[/quote]

80-100 miles more per tank?? so lets say 500 miles to a tank average, you are telling me You achieved a 20% increase in fuel efficiency?? Magic Juice!!! incredible!!!

I worked as an Inst Tech for a recently shut down Refinery, Murco, originally Total. I can assure you, you think you are buying ESSO / BP / Shell / Total etc fuel as you are buying from an Esso etc Garage?? think again.

Road loading facility with us was proof in the pudding, numerous branded Wagons filling up, with additives added at source, after filling up with THE exact same fuels.

Do people honestly think amongst all the Units which make up the chemistry set that is an Oil Refinery, they have a TESCO unit to add to the :

Fluid Catalytic Cracking Unit FCCU
Vacuum distillation UNIT
Crude Unit
Hydro De-sulphurisation UNIT
De-Merox unit
Alkylation Unit
Isomerisation Unit
Sweet Frac Unit

Nope, not likely.

My father an Oil refinery Operator for 35 years, Im Oil and Gas for now 11 years, and I can assure you we both use Supermarket fuels.

As stated, buy your own additive its far cheaper. British fuel as a whole is excellent quality. Supermarket fuel as a result, excellent quality.

End of.

Sent from my iPhone

ImaginativeTruth · Post by **ImaginativeTruth** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:50 am

80-100 miles more per tank?? so lets say 500 miles to a tank average, you are telling me You achieved a 20% increase in fuel efficiency?? Magic Juice!!! incredible!!!

> I did over 110,000 miles in the 320 and that is exactly what I am sharing with you and others.

> I find on my 40d X5 that on premium over the past three months that my range has gone up to 730 miles from a tank. When I first got it I was averaging 570 miles to a tank.

I dont know why, I'm just a regular consumer and I only use premium fuel. This is what I am seeing as a result. For me, I'll continue to use it over 'additives' like redex.

kjb1 · Post by **kjb1** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:30 pm

[quote="ImaginativeTruth"]

80-100 miles more per tank?? so lets say 500 miles to a tank average, you are telling me You achieved a 20% increase in fuel efficiency?? Magic Juice!!! incredible!!!

> I did over 110,000 miles in the 320 and that is exactly what I am sharing with you and others.

> I find on my 40d X5 that on premium over the past three months that my range has gone up to 730 miles from a tank. When I first got it I was averaging 570 miles to a tank.

I dont know why, I'm just a regular consumer and I only use premium fuel. This is what I am seeing as a result. For me, I'll continue to use it over 'additives' like redex.
[/quote]

Are you looking at the range the second you have brimmed it and assuming that is the exact amount of fuel range you are getting by any chance?

Sent from my iPhone

dgm · Post by **dgm** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:27 pm

I can't even imagine how you would have to drive a 40d to get 730 miles from a tank, it would be painful to even try and get close. These are thirsty beasts, let's not kid anyone on here. No offence but I find that claim fanciful in the extreme.

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:34 pm

Perhaps the account now being 'guest' is significant?

dgm · Post by **dgm** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:07 pm

[quote="Peter_R"]
[quote="X5Sport"]
Perhaps the account now being 'guest' is significant?
[/quote]

In my view he is a bit of a wind up merchant or forum troll and the forum name "ImaginativeTruth" could well be interpreted by the less diplomatic as "Liar".

)
[/quote]

And I bit

)

chris.t · Post by **chris.t** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:14 pm

[quote author=ImaginativeTruth link=topic=12280.msg124883#msg124883

> I find on my 40d X5 that on premium over the past three months that my range has gone up to 730 miles from a tank. When I first got it I was averaging 570 miles to a tank.

REALLY!

AwB · Post by **AwB** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:00 am

Some really informative comments here, particularly re upstream and distribution processes.

...also some hilarious BS flying around, but that's been covered! :blink:

So, question for those in the know... the additive to raise cetane values that is added at source, is this proprietary to the distributors or is it standard similar to the base fuel? In other words do Shell, BP, Esso etc add their own version of millers?

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