Potential owner. Couple of Q's

[J_K]

Hi guys.
I'm thinking about buying an early X5 (2001/2002) 3.0D.
I'm a BMW fan. My current daily is a 2002 530D and I drift an E36 M3.

I know that they are some of the best made cars on the market but understand they have problems.
I personally fitted a new turbo to my 530 at considerable cost. After buying one with a "receipt" for a new turbo.. Not impressed.

Anyway.
I've heard about the autobox problems. Is there an easy way to diagnose a dieing box? I trailer the drift car and do around 20,000 miles a year on top so this is important to me.
Also, do the turbos expire like in the 530's?

I'm looking for a 3.0D with around 90,000 on the clock so it'll last me a couple of years.

All help and advice greatfully received.

JK

[Sanj]

Welcome JK,

Make sure you stick around fella. Yes the turbo's do fail on the diesels just like the 530's mate and the gearboxes are also an issue. No indication they are about to die but you sould look to pick one up that has had the turbo replaced, especially at that mileage...

Consider the 4.4 if you want to eliminate the turbo... the 20k a yaer will be a factor to consider, for the fuel economy...

Read this guide - the best there is mate:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25

[J_K]

Thanks Sanj.
So basically, I'm walking into potentially £3500 ontop of buying it in the first place...

That sucks...


It's gotta be a diesel. The company pays for most of the diesel and I just couldn't sleep at night with 20mpg from my main car..

[AW8]

As the mans says ideally look to buy one with a new turbo.........ideally fitted by dealer so you know it's legit.

If seller claims recon box &/or turbos rather than new then I am sure you will be cautious based on your shared prior bad experience.

If wanting to avoid both auto & turbo woes then it has to be a 3.0i petrol manual albeit if towing I understand you would want auto. A V8 auto with lpg may be the way to go............. personally I am not an LPG fan as I have some "totally unfounded" concerns re extra heat. I have also heard of unexplained dash lights & some poor running. That said I have never 100% ruled out the idea of having a top of the range LPG instalation......I would just need some more convincing.

In an ideal world a properly sorted 3.0d circa 90k-110k miles with box, (new box or fluid change evidence), & turbo prior sorted (new turbo or evidence of breather change), plus ideally evidence of rear subframe bushes & discs being replaced. Such a hypothetical car should potentially be less hassle in those areas than a neglected timebomb........maybe with a few less miles. In reality you will seriously restrict your options if you dismiss all cars advertised that dont mention past attention to box or turbo & thus instead you may find it useful to play car detective.

Many sellers - especially trade either :

a) Wont have trawled old invoices.
b) Wont have all old invoices.
c) Wont disclose prior costly repairs, (as many can be put off rather than encouraged by news of past costs involved).
d) Will be genuinely vague or even clueless re a cars past.

In my experience a good private advert on ebay or pistonheads,(usually by someone who has owned the car for some while), is more than likely to give far more idea of car & the last keeper than many pre-filled spec list trade adverts.

Ask sellers for as much info as possible, ask them to to trawl old invoices &/or or maybe you could call bmw uk history info line to ascertain dealers visted & then call them to see what's exactly been done, number in my buyers guide but as premium maybe eliminate & shortlist potentail cars carefully first.

Despite all the above I wouldn't dismiss a non smokey 3.0d in good shape, smooth box. If buying 3.0d do consider getting breather & maybe gearbox oil changed ,(jury still out as to whether its a good idea to change gearbox oil for first time on cars with over say 75k or thereabouts). Worthwhile looking around box sump gasket area for evidence of excessive leaks amounting to anything more than a light sweat.

All used cars are timebombs to some extent........it's hard to negate all risk of component failure & to some extent every used car purchase is a gamble. You can of course place a bet with a 3rd party warranty company, that cost of repair will be higher than 3rd party warranty premiums though plenty of exemptions, pitafalls such as betterment contributions and sliding scale settlement tables on older higher mileage cars.


Luck also a factor to some extent, so good luck if you take the plunge

Apologies if much of the above obvious or common sense..........my advice for use of wider masses too.

[J_K]

The breather isn't the only reason the turbo's go.
Mine was done when I got the car and the turbo let go 20,000miles later.
Not a happy day...



Petrol, even with the LPG conversion is just a complete non starter for me.
It must be diesel.

Does changing the fluid in the box stop them from failing or does it just delay the inevitable?
And are decats available for X5's?
My 530 gained mpg once I took them out.

[paulbryson75]

a warranty, even third party one, will provide a certain peice of mind. Not cheap but worth it i think when you recognise the potential costings involved in a major failure.

Personally i bought an 02 3.0d - with 121k on the clock - now has 136k - couldn't be happier - love it Had a new gear box though for previous owner at around 85k

[windy]

[quote=""J_K""]Hi guys.
I'm thinking about buying an early X5 (2001/2002) 3.0D.
I'm a BMW fan. My current daily is a 2002 530D and I drift an E36 M3.[/quote]

Snap!

Just bought this 3.0D Sport:



to tow this:



Stripped track toy E36 M3.

[J_K]

Lol.
I'm noticing a pattern here.

This is last years rig.




And last years 328i drift car which has gone to a new home.

[AW8]

[quote=""J_K""]The breather isn't the only reason the turbo's go.[/quote]

Aware of that. As a prior E39 530d owner you probably already know more re the 3.0d engine than many.

[quote=""J_K""]Does changing the fluid in the box stop them from failing or does it just delay the inevitable?[/quote]

ATF change wont negate all chances of future failure but should reduce risk albeit a few hold view changing presents own failure risks.

[quote=""J_K""]And are decats available for X5's?[/quote]

Not aware of marketed decat pipes though they clould be fabricated at a cost, (with potential legal & emissions consequences if fitted).

[J_K]

Thanks for that.
I did read your FAQ but it was a little short on 3.0D info hence these questions here. Which is fair enough seeing as you were looking at a petrol model for yourself.

I think an ATF change is a good idea. The 530D autos had the same issues which is why I bought a manual.

As for the decat, as diesels don't actually have an emissions target for the MOT, only smoke emissions, it doesn't tend to present a problem.

Do swirl flaps rear their ugly head on X5's?
Big issues on 530D's and 320D's and 330D's.

[windy]

I'm curious about all of these myself. Heard the horror stories of swirl flaps, though not of turbos and auto boxes — what's the crack with those?

Or is it all just scaremongering? As an ex Porker owner, I know how infrequent the 'dreaded RMS failure' actually is, despite the forums.

[J_K]

Well. From my 530D research, the autoboxes are GM made and are just about adequate for the power that engine makes. They are "sealed for life" and as such, BMW don't have a service routine for them. Basically, they don't change the oil in them.. Ever..
Hence, they die sometime around 90,000 - 120,000 miles. Chipping makes it worse because you're putting more torque through them.
The turbo's are around the same interval. Sadly, the bearings give up and the impeller chews itself up on the housing and dumps oil down the inlet.
If this happens, DON'T buy a reckon turbo. Because they have the variable vanes, they can't be rebuilt properly and subsequently don;t work properly and fail alot sooner. I can vouch for this. A brand new unit from Garret is £875 inc vat. I did mine 12,000 miles ago..
The swirl flaps were only fitted to auto 530's and are little plastic flaps which create "swirl" (rather cunningly I thought) in the inlet tract to help the fuel mix in the cylinder. Why they only fitted them to auto's, I don;t know. What happens is the plastic gets old and frail and falls into the cylinder, along with the little metal screw, and it becomes aquainted with your piston crown, head and valves. The fix is metal blanking plates. Not expensive and not a nightmare to fix.
The definition of "only fitted to auto's" doesn't seem to carry over to the 3 series models and its a bit of a lottery whether you've got them or not and they also fitted them to the 2l model.

This information ONLY relates to 3 and 5 series engines as I haven't managed to find anything X5 related to either turbo life or swirl flap problems.
Sanj says above that the turbos die as do auto boxes so I imagine that they hadn't learnt of these problems with the 5 series when they produced the X5's...

[AW8]

You've definitely done your homework. Yes I believe the 5 speed box on the 3.0d was the GM unit.

On the swirl flap front this is a subject I have raised a few times. The consensus seems to be they are absent on facelift cars & as yet no mention of anyone having them on a prefacleift. If you use the search function at top of board you should find the thread.

Auto was an option on the 3.0i & the 3.0d so there could be sense in you sourcing on of these. Often those not paying for the auto option new also scrimped on other tick boxes on the order sheet but occasionally good spec manual 3.0d's do come up. worst case scenario you8 may have to buy a car absent of the comms pack. To be honest it's not all it's cracked up to be. An early comms pack wont have bluetooth, wont have 3D selectable Mk 4 Nav or a digital TV tuner. Just dont pay coms money for a non comms car. Glasses used to reckon on deducting £2k for abscence of same though as cars get older and cheaper you will have to apply a bit more common sense in valuation. also consider that colour can effect prices nearly as much as spec - black paint still usually commands a premium.

This advertised as 1 previous owner 3.0d manual appears tidy albeit to pricey IMO when absent of both comms & the leather options.

[gmc15]

Is the auto box on the V8's a GM?
I changed from a 3.0d to a V8 to try to avoid the turbo and gearbox problem Probably just have some other problems instead

Graeme.

[AW8]

Graeme - I belive yours is a ZF not that they are exempt from issues.


I am not 100% certain but am pretty sure the list of E53 auto boxes goes like this...........

GM 5 speed 5L40-E (BMW reference A5S 390R) : Prefacelift 3.0i, Prefacelift 3.0d & Facelift 3.0i

ZF 5 Speed 5HP24 (BMW reference A5S 440Z) : Prefacelift 4.4i & 4.6is.

ZF 6 speed 6HP26 : (BMW reference GA6HP26Z) Facelift 3.0d, Facelift 4.4i, & 4.8is.

Hopefully thats right I dont profess to be a gearbox guru & stand to be corected if more accurate info available

No fantastic references to quote to support above which is in main based on recollection plus a little googling to check mainly numbers & to verify some detail.

There's some conflicting info out there so I am happy to be corrected by someone more in the know so long as they dont just cut paste some random forum info.

Hope this is useful.