More problems! Potential fuel pump??!!

[Stevejspm]

Well here I am again in a time of need. I got round to changing the thermostat today which means my engine is toasty warm again. However.......

After the usual road test etc after doing the stat I threw the family in the car & said ok darling we can go shopping now, so off to morrisons we go, car running fine, engine temp good. Finish the shopping & back to the car. Bearing in mind our house is literally half a mile away I say to the wife "Ill go round the ring road & give it a proper run since doing the stat". Get 300 yards down the ring road & the bloody car dies! All ignition lights on, all gauges at 0 & we just stop in the fast lane of a dual carriageway. The car will not restart, turns over fine though.
Get recovered home & the recovery guy says "I'll jump start it off the truck mate" (bearing in mind the battery was near flat after having hazards on for 90mins & trying to start the car). The car turned over at the speed of light but no fire up. The recovery guy says "million percent fuel pump mate"!
Now can he diagnosos that just from the car not firing & what are the chances of it being fuel pump? Incidentally I have checked the fuel pump fuse which is ok.

Thoughts anyone?

[X5Sport]

Check the fuel pump relay too.  It's above the front fusebox.  £10 to replace, likely £200 to diagnose.

And without diagnostics how can the mechanic be sure it was the pump anyway?

Anything come up when you press the check control button in the binnacle?

All the wiring and connections secure when you put it back together?  Most likely cause unless a coincidental fault has occurred.

Richard

[Stevejspm]

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your response.  The only bits I took off to do the stat (apart from the stat & relavant hoses) was the turbo inlet hose (from air filter), the EGR pipe from manifold end & the engine cover. I've racked my brain to go over everything I did as you rightly point out its very coincidental!  I did lose a fair bit of coolant which some ended up on the AC pump & belt...probable issue?
As for the pump relay would that be an auto parts purchase or main dealer only?
I've got my Indy coming over tomorrow afternoon with his diagnostic pc so hopefully can shed some light on it.

[X5Sport]

Probably not a factory part.

Item number 1 on here:  shows the location too.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=61&fg=25

It caused trouble on mine and took ages to track down but cost a tenner!!  It's only a make/break, nothing clever.  You can at least check it works/has power etc.

Richard

[Stevejspm]

Did a bit of fault finding today......

Replaced fuel pump relay - no change

Disconnected fuel line from engine bay, when ignition is put on a shot of fuel is dispensed, when cranking no fuel at all. Should the fuel pump run when cranking & if the fuel pump is shot why would it dispense a shot of fuel when the ignition is put on?
Does anyone know how the fuel pump should work?

[X5Sport]

AFAIK it should feed a constant flow to the system.  However it might only stay running if the engine is running.  Otherwise it might just pressurise the line and then wait for demand.  Might be worth checking your fuel filter too.  The fuel pumps are under the back seats and I think the filter is half way back on the nearside underneath.  Fuel is definitely getting through and the pump fires a shot so it sounds as though it is as least running and getting past the filter.

Did you disturb any of the injector wiring?  Could be an earth loose/disconnected, or a plug come apart?  All the injector wiring is straight below the engine cover so I'm just thinking of what you had to remove and what might have been disturbed.

Wiring up the left side of the head and close to the EGR itself on mine.

Richard

[Stevejspm]

Thanks Richard for your assistance, very much appreciated

I've checked over everything I've done & all wiring & plugs, they all seem ok. I've since spoken to my Indy who assures me that once the ignition is switched on the pump should run continuously for 90 seconds at 5bar. Being its only giving a single shot at roughly 20ml he's almost certain it's the pump. He'll be over in about an hour with his diagnostic gear so should hopefully give a definitive answer. I'll certainly keep you updated.

One other possibly unrelated issue is the check control says 'check low beam'. Both bulbs are blown! I can only put this down to the recovery guy trying to jump the car off his truck, the car turned over so quick I thought the engine was going to jump out!

[X5Sport]

Ah......the 24V battery boiler/starter/instant charger!!

[AVI-8]

[quote="Stevejspm"]
Thanks Richard for your assistance, very much appreciated

I've checked over everything I've done & all wiring & plugs, they all seem ok. I've since spoken to my Indy who assures me that once the ignition is switched on the pump should run continuously for 90 seconds at 5bar. Being its only giving a single shot at roughly 20ml he's almost certain it's the pump. He'll be over in about an hour with his diagnostic gear so should hopefully give a definitive answer. I'll certainly keep you updated.

One other possibly unrelated issue is the check control says 'check low beam'. Both bulbs are blown! I can only put this down to the recovery guy trying to jump the car off his truck, the car turned over so quick I thought the engine was going to jump out!
[/quote]

Was his truck running 24 volts? A 7.5 tonne truck probably would be, transit size not
Did the recovery guy check for fault codes? The fact that your cars not starting would probably reveal a fault code

[Stevejspm]

Now you mention it he did have 2 big ar*e batteries on his truck! No he didn't do any diagnostics he just tried to crank the car over with his truck on jump leads then declared definitely fuel pump, packed his stuff up & left.
My Indy came round this afternoon & plugged his box of tricks in which came up with low rail pressure. He squirted a load of easistart in the air filter & turned the car over & it started then died. He's 100% certain it's fuel pump as he cant hear it running either. I bloody hope that recovery guy hasnt knackered anything else on my car by throwing 24v through it (that's if he did, he may of just used one of his 2 batteries, I didn't notice to be honest).

[AVI-8]

2 big assed batteries means 24 volts, it's when you mentioned it cranked over very fast! Which is a tell tale sign!
Was a common thing to do in years gone past ... A big no no with modern cars with computers, sounds as though you may have a fuel pump problem then, low fuel rail pressure and a lack of sound from fuel pump sounds like your problem

[Stevejspm]

The plot thickens........

After spending a couple of hours replacing the pump on Sunday morning the car still failed to start. After another 2-3 hours of fault finding & Internet searching I traced the fault to a 20A fuse in a black box within the engine bay. Replaced fuse & the car started straight away. Left it to warm up & took it for a test drive, all seemed well till I upped the power, the car then died & came to a stop. I was relatively close to home so walked back & picked up more 20A fuses. Fuse had again blown, replaced but still no start, fuse blew straight away. Called AA who
Plugged in diagnostics & came up with fault P0091 - fuel pressure control valve 1 short to earth. Got car recovered to my mechanic who still has it & no further news as yet. So basically the original fuel pump was fine.
I can only imagine I've done some damage somewhere by changing the stat or it's just coincidence that this valve was failing & has now completely failed with a short to earth.

Any comments anyone......?

[Stevejspm]

Car now fixed.....

Turned out when I changed the stat I routed the wiring loom next to the EGR pipe which gets hot  :-[
An expensive mistake which resulted in me stood by the ring road for a total of 7 hours waiting for recovery vehicles, a day off work (self employed so don't get paid) & the fee my mechanic charged for diagnosing & repair.

I'm never touching the car again, it can go straight to my mechanic!

[X5Sport]

Oops!  As suspected it seemed too much of a coincidence to have it happen after other work was done. 

And I'm pretty sure you are neither the first, nor will be the last to put summat back not quite right.  I know
I have and kicked myself for it after fixing it again...l :-[

Glad it's fixed again.

Richard

[kjb1]

doh! [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone