Supermarket fuel (biofuel)

chelsea · Post by **chelsea** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:31 am

Hi all,

I have read some of the past posts on using supermarket fuel (biofuel) and after years of running various other make diesel engines with no problems on bio fuel I can say hands down that the BMW d engines do not at all like it.
I have owned the car for a while now and when I first picked it up,it purred like a kitten and was very responsive,after 3 odd months of using s/market fuel the engine has got steadily more groggy,uneven tickover,what sounded like a cam chain rattle from the rear of the engine (especially from cold) and it had started smoking pretty bad for short bursts when flooring it up hill etc.

Christmas eve I decided to fill it with regular (non bio) from a BP garage, 150 miles of running around and the car is ticking over quietly again, the rattle has disappeared and it feels loads more responsive, this is deffo not in my mind etc as the rattle and tickover were very real.
Anyone else had the same experiences?

Merry Christmas (happy holidays)

Horizon · Post by **Horizon** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:56 am

I have read a few articles regarding bio fuels. It clearly states on the filler cap not to use bio fuels in the X5, but it's nearly impossible to tell if you pull up at a fuel station to tell if it's got bio fuel blended fuels.
One article last year said the RAC had attended 2500 breakdowns through bio fuel dew axing fuel tanks and blocking fuel filters with the gunge stripped from fuel tanks that had built up over the years.
The bio diesel acts as a detergent that cleans old deposits from your fuel system, so clogging fuel lines and filters.
They recomend that if you start to use bio fuel you should change your filters shortly afterwards
I think Morrisons were to withdraw bio fuels because of the problems. Not sure if others have followed suit.

chelsea · Post by **chelsea** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:14 am

[quote="Horizon"]
I have read a few articles regarding bio fuels. It clearly states on the filler cap not to use bio fuels in the X5, but it's nearly impossible to tell if you pull up at a fuel station to tell if it's got bio fuel blended fuels.
One article last year said the RAC had attended 2500 breakdowns through bio fuel dew axing fuel tanks and blocking fuel filters with the gunge stripped from fuel tanks that had built up over the years.
The bio diesel acts as a detergent that cleans old deposits from your fuel system, so clogging fuel lines and filters.
They recomend that if you start to use bio fuel you should change your filters shortly afterwards
I think Morrisons were to withdraw bio fuels because of the problems. Not sure if others have followed suit.
[/quote]
Cheers Horizon,
will go get a fuel filter this afternoon and change it just in case.

chelsea · Post by **chelsea** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:36 am

[quote="chelsea"]
[quote="Horizon"]
I have read a few articles regarding bio fuels. It clearly states on the filler cap not to use bio fuels in the X5, but it's nearly impossible to tell if you pull up at a fuel station to tell if it's got bio fuel blended fuels.
One article last year said the RAC had attended 2500 breakdowns through bio fuel dew axing fuel tanks and blocking fuel filters with the gunge stripped from fuel tanks that had built up over the years.
The bio diesel acts as a detergent that cleans old deposits from your fuel system, so clogging fuel lines and filters.
They recomend that if you start to use bio fuel you should change your filters shortly afterwards
I think Morrisons were to withdraw bio fuels because of the problems. Not sure if others have followed suit.
[/quote]
Cheers Horizon,
will go get a fuel filter this afternoon and change it just in case.
[/quote]

can you point me in the direction of where the fuel filter is situated please

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:16 am

Let's just clear up a couple of myths. This came from an article I read in Auto Express a couple of years back.

1. All diesel sold for road use in the UK is now (and has been since April 2014) B5 (5%) biofuel by law. BMW are approved to B8 by BMW.

2. All forecourts get their fuel from common supplier sites who provide fuels for everyone. Only additives are put in by the tanker driver and are not believed to be a cause of any troubles.

3. The 'Ultimate' type fuels are different in that they are not refined from crude oil but made from Gas To Liquid (GTL) instead, but the diesel version still contains 5% biofuel.

4. The major issue that can occur with biofuels is when they are incorrectly stored underground by the retailer. What happens is that water builds up in the underground tanks and if it is not regularly removed then bugs can grow at the water/fuel interface which leads to the clogging described. Avoid using more remote rural forecourts as they don't tend to turn over their fuel stocks fast enough, and may hit be pumping any water out. Supermarkets tend to need fuel deliveries several times a week. Water is always present in fuels which is why tank maintenance is needed to keep it below the level of the siphons.

5. Algae is not a problem because it needs light to grow and neither underground nor vehicle tanks have light getting in.

6. There has been a rise in the number of call outs for diesel fuel issues caused by a 'gunge' in the filters. The exact cause is unknown but it is similar to waxing and is particularly common in the north west of the UK and then only in very cold weather. Why isn't as yet known.

So, don't blame supermarkets for the issue, it is not necessarily their fault as they get their fuel from the same places as everyone else. It might be poor maintenance at the forecourt, or a fuel filter on your car that needs changing anyway.

For petrol users the shift to E8 fuels (8% Ethanol) or even higher is likely to cause issues too because water an Ethanol mix. Water in petrol causes corrosion in the fuel systems. There is a long term plan to go to E85 so biofuels are here to stay.

I don't work for an oil company, but I do like to follow the industry trends. It has often puzzled me that VAG cars can run on pretty much anything (even B100/E100) and yet neither BMW nor Merc vehicles can.......

Richard

chelsea · Post by **chelsea** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:28 am

[quote="X5Sport"]
Let's just clear up a couple of myths. This came from an article I read in Auto Express a couple of years back.

1. All diesel sold for road use in the UK is now (and has been since April 2014) B5 (5%) biofuel by law. BMW are approved to B8 by BMW.

2. All forecourts get their fuel from common supplier sites who provide fuels for everyone. Only additives are put in by the tanker driver and are not believed to be a cause of any troubles.

3. The 'Ultimate' type fuels are different in that they are not refined from crude oil but made from Gas To Liquid (GTL) instead, but the diesel version still contains 5% biofuel.

4. The major issue that can occur with biofuels is when they are incorrectly stored underground by the retailer. What happens is that water builds up in the underground tanks and if it is not regularly removed then bugs can grow at the water/fuel interface which leads to the clogging described. Avoid using more remote rural forecourts as they don't tend to turn over their fuel stocks fast enough, and may hit be pumping any water out. Supermarkets tend to need fuel deliveries several times a week. Water is always present in fuels which is why tank maintenance is needed to keep it below the level of the siphons.

5. Algae is not a problem because it needs light to grow and neither underground nor vehicle tanks have light getting in.

6. There has been a rise in the number of call outs for diesel fuel issues caused by a 'gunge' in the filters. The exact cause is unknown but it is similar to waxing and is particularly common in the north west of the UK and then only in very cold weather. Why isn't as yet known.

So, don't blame supermarkets for the issue, it is not necessarily their fault as they get their fuel from the same places as everyone else. It might be poor maintenance at the forecourt, or a fuel filter on your car that needs changing anyway.

For petrol users the shift to E8 fuels (8% Ethanol) or even higher is likely to cause issues too because water an Ethanol mix. Water in petrol causes corrosion in the fuel systems. There is a long term plan to go to E85 so biofuels are here to stay.

I don't work for an oil company, but I do like to follow the industry trends. It has often puzzled me that VAG cars can run on pretty much anything (even B100/E100) and yet neither BMW nor Merc vehicles can.......

Richard
[/quote]good post Richard.
I have been using Sainsburys and asda diesel in my other cars with no problems at all so cant understand why after 2000 ish miles in the x5 it got rattly and was missing at tick over......150 miles later on the normal forecourt fuel and its a different engine again..... I am guessing the rattle I had was the injectors or timing or something related?

sunnydude959 · Post by **sunnydude959** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:48 am

[quote="X5Sport"]
Let's just clear up a couple of myths. This came from an article I read in Auto Express a couple of years back.

1. All diesel sold for road use in the UK is now (and has been since April 2014) B5 (5%) biofuel by law. BMW are approved to B8 by BMW.

2. All forecourts get their fuel from common supplier sites who provide fuels for everyone. Only additives are put in by the tanker driver and are not believed to be a cause of any troubles.

3. The 'Ultimate' type fuels are different in that they are not refined from crude oil but made from Gas To Liquid (GTL) instead, but the diesel version still contains 5% biofuel.

4. The major issue that can occur with biofuels is when they are incorrectly stored underground by the retailer. What happens is that water builds up in the underground tanks and if it is not regularly removed then bugs can grow at the water/fuel interface which leads to the clogging described. Avoid using more remote rural forecourts as they don't tend to turn over their fuel stocks fast enough, and may hit be pumping any water out. Supermarkets tend to need fuel deliveries several times a week. Water is always present in fuels which is why tank maintenance is needed to keep it below the level of the siphons.

5. Algae is not a problem because it needs light to grow and neither underground nor vehicle tanks have light getting in.

6. There has been a rise in the number of call outs for diesel fuel issues caused by a 'gunge' in the filters. The exact cause is unknown but it is similar to waxing and is particularly common in the north west of the UK and then only in very cold weather. Why isn't as yet known.

So, don't blame supermarkets for the issue, it is not necessarily their fault as they get their fuel from the same places as everyone else. It might be poor maintenance at the forecourt, or a fuel filter on your car that needs changing anyway.

For petrol users the shift to E8 fuels (8% Ethanol) or even higher is likely to cause issues too because water an Ethanol mix. Water in petrol causes corrosion in the fuel systems. There is a long term plan to go to E85 so biofuels are here to stay.

I don't work for an oil company, but I do like to follow the industry trends. It has often puzzled me that VAG cars can run on pretty much anything (even B100/E100) and yet neither BMW nor Merc vehicles can.......

Richard
[/quote]

Fantastic post!

sleepyfolk · Post by **sleepyfolk** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:25 pm

My 2.4 A6 petrol was a totally different car on Vpower than supermarket petrol, not just the performance but the general sound and tickover was dreadful on cheap fuel

kjb1 · Post by **kjb1** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:36 am

Ive worked for two large Oil Refineries in UK and currently work in LNG, and I can assure you I buy all my petrol / diesel at the Supermarket.

Maintained instruments on the Road Loading facility of Refinery as small portion of the job, and trust me, fuel is fuel. You think you are buying Shell / Total / Sainsburys / Tesco / Esso etc??? wrong, one Refinery say for Instance Murco, will supply all of the above!! the Refineries all have contracts with one another to supply fuel across UK. Additives are added at the Loading station via plant operator.

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Reusch · Post by **Reusch** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:32 am

If you look at the Liverpool Echo online there's a write up regarding a petrol station Esso if I remember right are having to pay out for damaged engines due to contaminated fuel.

sleepyfolk · Post by **sleepyfolk** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:39 am

The a6 would splutter when pulling away with tesco fuel and didn't with vpower, it wasn't my imagination!

X5Sport · Post by **X5Sport** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:11 am

Different base material and octane/Cetane rating so not a fair comparison. What was the A6 tuned for by Audi?

storminmike · Post by **storminmike** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:50 pm

My diesel doesn't seem to get the mileage with Tesco (is it a tad more biofuel-greenenergy than the others?).....so I go anywhere apart from there. Morrsions is cheapest and it loves that....same with sainsburys.

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