Webasto = smelly white smoke?

[RenoHuskerDu]

(cross posted from PistonHeads)
Since the weather turned cold, I get some white smoke from the tailpipes shortly after startup. It lasts for about 3-4 minutes. I have also noticed a distinct odor of diesel fuel before the smoke starts. The smoke smells like paraffin.

This concerned me as injectors can develop leaks, so I scheduled a service appt at my unfriendly local French dealer. There was no hope of getting me in before 17 December, but if I cross the border into Deutschland they can check it tomorrow (ever wonder why the French seem so negative in general?).

But tonight I decided to run the Webasto whilst shopping. Lo and behold, that same white smoke started coming out of the tailpipes (so much that some alarmist frog called the firemen).

Now I wonder if my Webasto has an automatic start feature that makes it fire up on cold weather start without me pushing the button on the remote. Perhaps the Webasto has been making the smoke, and I have no other problem than an adjustment of its burner.

Apparently the Webasto is a rare option in the UK, as it's very dear. I'm hoping that one of you has experienced a similar issue, but it may be hope against hope as nobody has answered my other Webasto thread http://xdrivers.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10715.0.html

[X5Sport]

Good theory but the Webasto has its own exhaust that comes out under the front (passenger side for UK) via a small pipe.  It does not feed into the main exhaust.

What you describe is unburned fuel due to some other issue.  Unless of course it's just steam that smells of diesel?

Richard

[RenoHuskerDu]

If it has its own exhaust system, I'm trying to understand how my Webasto could generate white smoke out of the twin exhaust tips, motor off. I recall  from the installation guide on my TLC80 that Webasto does not recommend routing their exhaust into the car's exhaust. Perhaps BMW sussed out a way on LCI models.

[X5Sport]

Pass.  RealOEM shows no connection onto the main exhaust from the Webasto unit.  Not even an attachment point on the pipes anywhere between the manifold and tailpipe.  The exhaust fot it appears to be below the left wing or under the car on the left side at the front.. ???

And are you really seeing smoke, or steam?  Mind you explaining either is less than obvious but if it was smoke that would tend to indicate the Webasto was not working properly as the fuel mixture was too rich.  You probably need to have a look underneath and trace the pipes.  At least it would confirm the diagrams were right or wrong.  There are no piccies I can find for the underside of the LCI.

Richard

[Horizon]

If you activate the webasco via the remote control, where does the smoke come from , under the front drivers or pasenger side ( as yours will be LHD ) or out of the main exhaust? This will then tell you if these are linked, also if you then get the smell, it may be the webasco unit at fault. The E53's used to fire up the heater at below 5degs to assist in engine warm up, but I thought the E70 didn't unless euro spec ones do

[RenoHuskerDu]

I had my son verify that the smoke comes out the tailpipes when the motor is running.

When I saw the smoke, Webasto running but motor off, it appeared to come from the rear, but I did not carefully verify that. Tonight will be cold and I'm driving the kids to a youth group event, so I can verify.  But what I can verify already is that it's smoke, not steam. And that it's the same paraffin odor in both cases. 

I had a chat with a German BMW dealer near Switzerland about the issue. He says that E70 Webastos are as rare as hen's teeth in southern Deutschland, just like in the UK. I may call a dealer in the north of Deutschland on Monday to seek more info.

X5Sport, can you please post a link to RealOEM? I'd like to gander it meself.

[X5Sport]

Just type Realoem.com into a search engine.  If you put the last 7 characters of the VIN into the 'Serial number' box, it will find your model.

Richard

[5wany]

I'm sure webasto has own exhaust pipe below the unit at front of car.  Its formally called auxiliary heating, I have it on my LCI 2011 and one of the things I noted in handbook is cars with AH should not be driven in water any deeper than 25-30cm (surprised me a 4x4 than can only go in shallow puddles  ???).  I'm assuming that's so exhaust of AH does not get water inside.  When AH is running it can smell a bit diesel smelly (that was on my e53 2006 but not experienced it in e70 LCI) when running but not noted any white smoke (front or rear).

Trust German dealers will pin point issue for you (wouldn't trust a frenchie - a most horrid people indeed  )

[X5Sport]

It's to stop you ripping all the underbody shielding off or putting too much water in the electrics in the engine bay.

12" of water is not exactly a puddle!  And these are 'soft roaders' not AWD cross-country.

Richard

[RenoHuskerDu]

Thanks for the tips, gents. I will avoid the temptation to take the X5 swimming, as it were. I just sold my Disco td5, alas. But since driving the E70, the joy had gone out of LR ownership anyway.

Update:
Indeed, it is the Webasto at fault. My X5 is in Germany today getting repaired. On the lift it's clear that the Webasto has been leaking diesel fairly steadily. That generated the smoke and diesel smell.  And as correctly noted here, its exhaust is entirely separate from the vehicle exhaust.  Apparently my son was simply mistaken when he believed that the smoke came from the rear exhaust tips. Never send a boy to do a man's job.

We were also surprised to note an obvious gear oil leak from the rear diff at the prop shaft, where its oil seal is failing and possibly the input shaft bearing as well. The French dealer, natch, had managed to overlook that risky situation 3 weeks ago, which could have cost me the diff assembly at the end of the day...there's the French worker spirit for you.  I'm taking the car exclusively to Deutschland from now on for service.

I'm reduced to driving a 114i for a day. It's surprisingly peppier than the 114d loaner I had 3 weeks ago. I was shocked to see that it even has no iDrive. I thought that was baseline fitment.

[RenoHuskerDu]

Update:

My Webasto is fritos. The unit is leaking fuel at its seams. It may have been abused, or submerged, or God knows what.  The bugger costs over £1k...and it's not under warranty.  The German dealership does not have one in stock or in a nearby warehouse, and they have two mechanics out sick so no time to replace it this week anyway. 

I'm having them disconnect it from its power and fuel supplies.  I'll take my car back and deal with it next year.  I don't want to spend Christmas without my car.  Driving the loaner car drives home the point that a X5 is addictive. I don't enjoy being so low on the road and in other drivers' headlight beams.  I'm spoilt, as it were.

[X5Sport]

Oh dear, not good just before Xmas.

Is there a service agent that can fix it for a lot less than BMW will charge you just to provide and fit a new/re-manufactured unit?

Richard

[RenoHuskerDu]

There's some irony here. Webasto used to have a busy local factory, where I certainly could have found good leads for that.  But France drove them out with higher and higher taxes, so they shifted production elsewhere. It's an empty building now. http://tinyurl.com/pxlmcuo It would seem that wealth and success are scorned and persecuted here in glorious France, and the spoils of that pogrom are deserted factories. But I digress.

[sunnydude959]

My Dad has a webasto in his range rover sport, and it keeps running after the engine is switched off when its cold outside. A little bit of smelly smoke comes out under the front left wheel.

Yours sounds bad though 

[RenoHuskerDu]

Epilogue:
My Webasto was literally leaking fuel at its seams.  The repair bill is £1.5k. BMW France said "tough luck, pigeon, the warranty is over." So I asked BMW Germany and they wanted to see copies of the service booklet all duly stamped.  Then they replied "we'll extend the warranty for you, Sir."

Moral: 
There is no reason to do business in France if you can avoid it.

Attached:
A couple pics of the old Webasto. NSFW! It has been disconnected from fuel and power for a month now but it's still a mess.