3.0d battery/slow starting problem?? Read on pls

[ChrisLux]

Hiya ,
This may help sone of you out there who appear to have a battery failing .

I bought my '05 3.0d in Apr this year , and it had been standing basically for 3 months
with little/no use .

When I finally got it I had a problem with it cranking over very slowly , especially
when weather was colder . I had an inspection done at dealer here , and they said
they tested all the electrical systems and there was nothing wrong . Perhaps as the
battery was original , and the car had been standing , it needed a long trickle charge , so
I put it on a CTEK for the whole w/e . Come Monday morning , no difference !!
As I also have E39 with same engine , so I knew something was wrong .

I took it to another dealer , who again had it for a day , and said that everything had
come back clear , and the only thing that looked a weak link was the battery .

So , when I came to UK for Summer hols , I booked the car into BW with Jason to have
a new battery fitted , even though I was sceptical it would make any difference .
As soon as Jason put the car on the AutoLogic , the fault codes lit up like a christmas
tree , so f*** knows what the 2 dealerships over here were looking at .
The main concern from Jason was that 3 of the 6 glowplugs seemed not to be working
correctly , and also the EGR valve , but he didn't have the time to be able to do that
work for me then , so I noted it down to be done asap .

He changed the battery for me , and did a re-map (see my earlier post for details) and
for the first 1wk afterwards it seemd to be better , although not 100% in my opinion
compared to my E39 .

Since Aug , the problem has gone back to how it was before I replaced the battery .
It's also been back to the garage and checked over again , with no-one shedding any
more light .

As I'm driving back to UK this w/e , I called my local Indy in Wolverhampton , BM EuroService ,
to ask them change the glowplugs and clean out the EGR valve .
When I asked for this , he asked my 'why?' , so I recalled my story .
They then told me that it's very rare that a diesel will not start even if the glowplugs are not
working correctly .

However , he did tell me something very interesting , which is where this may be of help to
you too ;
X5's don't use Bosch starter motors , they use Magnetti Marelli , and with the earlier X5's , there
was a big problem with them failing . I forget the complexities of the explanation , but basically
their internal workings short out and cause the unit to draw far too much power from the battery .
Hence the reason it cranks over very slowly . They asked me to do a drop-test on the battery whilst
turning the engine over . The readout should be around 180amps . It's the amp figure to look for ,
NOT the volts .
So , last night I took it to a small garage I know and asked them to do a test for me . 370amps draw .
Over twice what should be expected .

Around '05 , when my car was built , was when BMW acknowledged there was a problem and started to
fit an upgraded starter motor . I priced up a new starter , and the price can vary a lot . BMW dealers
charge £380 + a surcharge for return of the old unit .
I have finally ordered mine on http://www.bmminiparts.com at £295 + surcharge .

I'm having it fitted on Weds , so I'll let you know how it goes , but as I've been using BM EuroService
for the last 8 years and can't praise them highly enough , I'm sure they will have it right .

So , next time you think it may be just the battery , check out the starter amp draw too .


Hope this helps .
Cheers , Chris

[pvr]

Good info

[x555]

+1 and thanks for sharing info

[X5Sport]

Interesting. I had all sorts of problems starting my E53 about three years ago with slow starting. I had some serious arguments with two BMW dealers about this and I ended up with the rear hatch power lock being changed because it was drawing too much power, no difference, then they blamed the iPod system and is was reinstalled, no difference, next the security device was blamed and a diode put in the power supply, again no difference but it wrecked the device.

After months of insisting that someone should stop using the fault diagnosis system and start working from 1st principles (the way I was taught to maintain cars) as they used before all these new fangled computer systems, finally one Dealer put one of their real mechanics ( not a Technician as they now call them ) on the car and he bactracked the problem to find that like you it was the starter motor drawing way too much current. Because of the fault and the length of the starter cables, there was such a volt drop that the system could not deliver the required current and the car's supply dropped to about 9V which caused the entire system to reset.

A new starter was fitted, and everything has been fine ever since. Because no fault code ever showed for it the garages had a real problem tracking it down as the whole car electronic infrastructure effectively crashed when the starter was engaged.

A useful tip for anyone else finding poor starting but a battery that tests as OK.

[Bungie]

When i had my X5 (June 2006 model) it was under warranty with bmw. I took it into BMW Sutton Coldfield because the seatbelts were not retracting fully. (common problem) all they do is clean the mechanism.
Anyway, at the same time they put a new starter motor on there because they said it was lazy upon startup. I never picked up on this but the dealers did so fair play to them.

Don't sell you X

[AlexC]

Thanks for this - my 05 model is in with my local dealer this weekend with the same problem, they have said the starter motor needed changing then decided it was the battery, now they have gone back to thinking it is the starter motor....might solve it one day.....lucky it is all covered by used car warranty!!

[Bungie]

So, you have a new battery and soon a new starter motor

[fenj66]

hmm! mine shows on diagnostics that glow plugs 1,2, and 3 are down and egr showing a fault, but even in this cold weather it starts first time instantly! it might explain the cloud of white smoke on cold start up though..

[ChrisLux]

[quote=""fenj66""]hmm! mine shows on diagnostics that glow plugs 1,2, and 3 are down and egr showing a fault, but even in this cold weather it starts first time instantly! it might explain the cloud of white smoke on cold start up though..[/quote]


Mine was exactly same , 3 faulty plugs and the EGR valve , but still started ok , all be it with very slow crankover speed .

[ChrisLux]

So , just picked up the car from BM EuroService and Paul was 100% correct .

Started with normal speed crankover in @ 3 seconds now it has a new starter
motor fitted .

His diagnosis was right on the button . He told me that when they did the drop-test before
they replaced the starter , it went off the scale of their machine , over 600 amps draw !!!

Anyone living within reach of Wolverhampton and is looking for an Indy , I wouldn't hesitate
to recommend Paul & Mark at BM EuroService for their help and professionalism .

Cheers , Chris

[Smeeagain]

Tha'ts good news - can you share the cost of supplying and fitting the starter ?

Smee

[ChrisLux]

[quote=""smeeagain""]Tha'ts good news - can you share the cost of supplying and fitting the starter ?

Smee[/quote]


I bought the starter motor from BMMiniParts.com . It's £294.49 but then there is a surcharge .
Total cost to start with was £408.20 incl Courier P&P , then you get a refund of £96.77 when you return the old unit , making it £311.43 .

This compares to BMW main dealers £378.35 , where there is also a repayable surcharge of £65.00 on top . And then their £85.00
per/hour labour on top .

BME charged me £65.00 to fit it .
So basically around £380.00 all done . Not exactly cheap !! But then BMW's generally aren't !!

Chris

[Smeeagain]

thanks for the detailed explanation - good to have the numbers as I'm considering having this done so lets me budget for the pennies (or rather the pounds !)

Smee